Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@SEE- Congratulations! It is stories like yours that buoy those of us just beginning.
@david
Renunciation/relinquishment has no bearing on your claims to Social Security. Your entitlement doesn’t change at all.
Yesterday, I caught up with an acquaintance who is a lawyer with one of the biggest CDN banks. She is up to her eyeballs in making sure FATCA compliance happens. Asked her if she knew what that was doing to many persons whom I know. When I described their situations, her jaw dropped. “They don’t tell us that; I had no idea”, she said. Though it’s not going to change anything, at least one more person has heard the actual effects of this deal, and in time to vote.
@Duchesse
Did you happen to ask what the bank will accept as self-certification in lieu of a CLN?
Does anyone know what do FIs/banks do with the completed W-8BEN forms that they’ve collected from their customers? Are they sending those to the IRS?
From what I understand, ivy, the banks are only required to keep them on file.
@Duchesse, good for you!!
On this side of the pond I am hearing that some insiders are working at following the law to the minimum requirement not being hyperactive like some compliance people.
@ Petros: No, I didn’t go in that direction. Wanted her to know the consequences of the Bank’s reporting, Her dept had never considered it.
Thanks for the response, @Bubblebustin. It makes me wonder as to why banks are collecting them in the first place if the IRS never gets to see them anyway. Wouldn’t a simple signed statement from a customer be sufficient to certify one’s status instead of using a foreign government’s official form (in this case, the IRS form)? Or are there instances/conditions where banks are actually required to furnish these completed documents to the IRS?
@ivy
No, banks don’t send the W-8BEN to the IRS. They only need it to cover their ass in case the IRS asks them why they haven’t provided FATCA data for a particular customer. It simply shifts the blame and the risk from the bank to the customer.
So here’s an inheritance question for you. My parents, both born in the U.S., and nearing 80, have opted not to come into compliance. They have lived in Canada for over 50 years. My Dad is an optimistic kind of guy who takes the approach that if they want to arrest him at the border, let them. Although born in Canada myself, I have worked to come into compliance and just had my renunciation appointment in Calgary last week. ( Except for the atrocious credit card bill, it was a piece of cake!) My fully Canadian husband has been named one of the executors of my parents’ will. Are there going to be all sorts of problems when my parents die and the will needs to be executed? My husband hates what the U.S. has done to us and won’t feel obligated to divulge anything he isn’t required to, but I wonder what the requirements will be. Anyone out there who knows? I have 8 siblings, 2 of whom live in the U.S. None of them have worried about their U.S. citizenship obligatons as much as I have, and only one or two of the ones living in Canada are in compliance.
@Ivy
Great questions, which I admittedly don’t have the depth of knowledge to answer. What I do know is that the word simplification isn’t part of the US government’s vocabulary.
Maybe you can get more information from this article. The author is pretty responsive to questions should you have any:
http://blogs.angloinfo.com/us-tax/2015/03/09/3023/
Peachy. I don’t think it’s easy but certainly can be arranged without difficulty.
Firstly, a combined estate of 100,000 US per family. They might have to say the bequest is from a non-resident alien
Or if they insist on a big 5 trust co as executor, don’t tell them they are US persons –
Another option is to try and give it away before the finish line. This might be difficult to arrange.
If the estate will be large, professional help is clearly required and preemptive changes might be required.
Peachy. My response got badly garbled- don’t know why.
Ignore the first paragraph.
I meant to say. A combined estate of 10 million US$ should be exempt from US inheritance tax. However the estate tax return is horribly intrusive and expensive. I don’t know how a return from a non- compliant USC would be treated.
they could find a local lawyer with no US ties. There would be no US filing. Your husband would have no exposure. The US heirs might have to file form 3520. I believe the threshold is $100,000.
@ George: Yes, I have heard that too from others in banking.
I don’t think it’s only big 5 that you have to be concerned about. A friend, who is an accountant, was telling me about an executor putting a deceased person thru Streamlined because he/she was a US citizen. I suspect that any executor who is a professional of some sort (accountant, lawyer) will take such a CYA approach.
Unfortunately, having a US place of birth may be problematic when it comes to hiding the fact from the executor as I believe the death certificate, which the executor will have, will clearly state place of birth.
Thanks for the replies. The problem, I’m afraid, is that my parents will do nothing preemptive and we’ll be left to muddle through it after they are gone.
@notamused and @Bubblebustin, thanks for the comment and feedback.
So through persistence I was able to get an appointment for tomorrow to document my relinquishment through a cancellation. I’m excited, but super nervous now. I’ll be spending tonight gathering all my documentation and hoping it’s enough for a positive outcome.
Emty,
Congratulations on your persistence and it paying off in your being able to take a cancelled appointment. Many good Brock spirits will be with you tomorrow. Be strong — it sounds like you’ll be well prepared.
@Emty,
Some interviewers through you curve balls by repeating questions again and again later, and asking questions about things you may have explained in great detail in your submissions. Kinda like Regis when he asked in a skeptical or incredulous voice, “Is that your final answer?”. Don’t be thrown off: don’t hesitate and just answer the questions confidently and consistently again.
Well, seems like things went okay. I was in and out in about 20 minutes, it was all very straight forward. They didn’t really ask very many questions, just to verify that I took my position with the intention of relinquishing and that I was there of my own free will and understood the ramifications of relinquishing. They said everything looked good on their end, but that it would likely take a few months to hear back officially. I’m so relieved that I was able to get in and get this all done. While I won’t feel totally better until that CLN is in my hands, this is already a weight off of my shoulders.
MT Could you remind us what was the government position you took. Thanks
Hey,
I posted on here back in July about my situation, I renounced in March of this year, having been one of those that left the USA when I was very young, and never returned as an adult or acted as a citizen. It’s now been seven months with no CLN delivered. I expect the USA is hiding (by way of no communication) the fact that they have enormous numbers of renunciations to wade through.
The other day, one of my former banks told me that they are going to report to the authorities that they suspect me of being American (which is pretty much a criminal accusation these days). With no CLN, I can’t say otherwise. The embassy can’t give any indication where my CLN is in the process. I suspect somebody is using it as a coaster for their coffee cup. Which makes it probably the most expensive coaster in the whole wide world.
At this point, with no idea when my CLN may be available. So given the letter from the bank, I have sent a message to the embassy to ask what I should do in regards of the tax situation. My previous advice from the IRS on premise in London was that I had to do nothing as I had no SSN. Problem is that the American government waves away problems with one hand, while winding up the other to slap you.
Probably I will end up going for the streamlined process… Submit everything I can with ITIN number to best of my ability, thus showing if nothing else my intent as a non-evader of the corrupt American system. Just dreaming of the day that these laws are overturned (I do believe that long term America will feel the isolation that this will bring and will have to put it right) and then we can all line up to sue them for the obvious injustices.
Does anybody have any advice to the contrary on the above?
Thanks,
Chris
@ChrisM:
1) Renunciation receipt: If you renounced in March, you would have been required to pay US$2,350 and should have been given a receipt by the embassy cashier. You could present this to your bank as evidence that you renounced your US citizenship.
2) Confirmation letter: Renunciation confirmation letters have been issued by US embassies at times. Scanned copies of one or more have been posted on Isaac Brock. You could request that the US Embassy in London issue one for you.