Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
I think doing a signed and court officer witnessed testament on the day of my husband’s citizenship ceremony helped him with his relinquishment. He sent a copy of it the very next day to the US Consulate and they kept it in his file until his appointment (months later). So the citizenship ceremony became the date of his relinquishment for his CLN. The testament basically said this is what he did, when he did it and what his intent was (i.e. to relinquish US citizenship having become a Canadian). The Canadian court official was delighted to sign. I believe the judge would have been too if there had been an opportunity to ask him (busy day with over sixty new Canadians sworn in). Of course this is only a suggestion for anyone with an upcoming citizenship ceremony … it certainly can’t hurt and there’s no cost.
@ Embee,
You can’t get more contemporaneous than that – and free of charge to boot! 🙂
@Duke of Devon, “George. You recommend swearing an affidavit at every turn. Have you actually found this to be necessary or useful?”
First its inexpensive and it can be prepared to look extremely official with a nice big gold seal on it and other officialdom dependent on country.
Necessary? Thats rather subjective.
Useful? Experience in the EU has been extremely useful with FIs and also from relinquishers who did get a CLN had few questions from Consulor Officers.
The price of a well drafted relinquishment affadavit with seal/stamp and other bits and bobs is about the same price as dinner out.
Also in the EU the recipient then is able to contact the notary or lawyer to confirm the affadavit was made with them.
@ pacifica777
We (it was me actually) would not have thought of that handmade testament of intent if it hadn’t been for Brock. Sooooooo grateful for this place. A nice side note is that it put a big grin on the court officer’s face. Nothin’ says lovin’ like, “I want to have allegiance to one country only and I choose Canada.”
George. Fair enough. Cheers. Duke
@Duke I haven’t prepared an affidavit for my files but may do one for the sake of estate planning. I would request my attorney and accountant keep a copy in my file to ensure that no one involved in settling my estate involves or files with the IRS. For me, this would be the greatest utility of having something official looking in writing. The relinquishing date is back in 2001 when I was fairly fresh out of residency
Cheers,
BC Doc.
Thank you for the site link, Medea. This is most helpful. I am very lucky that I have my appointment when I do, as it’s before November 9th. Horseshoes or what? The part that is tough to take is the perception around filing and why I did and how that can potentially “look bad” and jeopardize the approval of my case. Will they not understand how one is caught between a rock and a hard place with regard to this issue?
@Nofeedocumentation, it doesn’t have to necessarily look bad. You can explain that you planned to become a Canadian citizen and found out about the need to file US tax returns which you hadn’t been aware of before. You’ve duly filed as required in preparation for fling the 8854 when it comes due next year to clear your US tax obligations. You got the passport because again you found out that you were supposed to enter/leave the US with a US passport. However, you also point out that since you obtained your Canadian citizenship, you have done nothing to continue to act like an American – travelling to the US with an American passport (you used your Canadian one), voting in American elections, etc.
You may have answered “yes” to a couple of the questions, but you do have reasons for why you did what you did and they are only two amongst many “no’s” on the form.
It’s not so much a matter of what you did before your relinquishment act (gaining Canadian citizenship), it’s what you’ve done since then – and you have behaved only as a Canadian citizen would. Which is quite correct because that it what you are now.
@Nofeedocumentation, If you have any worries you are reading the form incorrectly!!
Since April 2015…….is what you need to insert before each question.
Have you filed any US tax returns since April 2015? NO, you filed when you were a USC and stopped since
Have you voted in the USA since April 2015? NO
(note, you should mail a letter to wherever and if you are registered to vote in the USA not being a USC any more.)
Since becoming a Canadian you SOLELY vote in Canada, file taxes in Canada and travel solely on a Canadian Passport including to the USA.
@ nofeedocumentation,
Good advice from Medea and George.
To narrow in on one point — it crossed my mind that a lot of people file taxes shortly before the filing deadline, June 15th, and you performed your relinquishing act on xx April 2015.
If you filed your 2014 taxes after the date of your relinquishing act, xx April 2015, still no problem. The taxes you filed related to 2014, when you were a USC.
Likewise, no problem, of course, that next year you’ll file for 2015, as you were a USC for part of 2015. A note on that:
Date of relinquishing act: xx April 2015
Date of consulate meeting: xx September 2015
IRS will consider you to be a “tax citizen” up to xx September 2015, as since 2004 the law states that one remains a US person for IRS purposes until the date they notify DoS of their relinquishment (26 USC 877A(g)(4)) .
From what you’ve posted, it sounds like you’re in good shape. Your only tie to the US is family and friends. That’s really common and not connected to exercising rights of a citizen – doesn’t cause problems.
Dittos on what Pacifica just wrote……
While I doubt its the case if you have a valid US drivers license, turn it in pronto. I doubt thats common in Canada but its surprisingly common enough in the EU as you usually need to requalify instead of an exchange.
This is going to be an easy and uncomplicated relinquishment.
So I guess I’m out of luck on the fee now since I wasn’t able to get an appointment until March. That sucks.
Emty… Just get out while you can. It’s worth it believe me. Been there and done that. I tried to relinquish in 2014. State Department told me I had to renounce. Although relinquishment would have been free at that time, I’m glad to be free of toxic US citizenship. Best option is to be able to move forward and leave the nightmare behind. Let’s hope Justice Martineau gives us a fair decision soon as well, so people can at least be safe in Canada, whether they are in a position to renounce/relinquish US citizenship or not..
I have an appointment on September 21, 2015 at the US Consulate in Calgary. It is my understanding (and was my intent) that I had relinquished my US citizenship when I became Canadian in 1974. I want to formalize that by obtaining a Certificate of Loss of Nationality (I am tired of being told by US border agents that I should be travelling on a US passport because it is their belief that I am still a US citizen). Today, I received a confirmation email from the US Consulate, which indicated that the appointment was NOT to be used for renunciation or relinquishment services. I have responded to their email, advising that it is my understanding that I have already relinquished and that I only wish to formalize that by submitting Form DS-4079. I have requested a reply, advising that the US Consulate is a 9 hour drive from my residence and I don’t want to make that journey for no reason. I intend to keep the appointment anyway. When I booked the appointment online, I checked the “Notarial or other services” box. Has anyone else just kept their appointment despite being told it’s not for relinquishment or renunciation purposes?
@ SEE
I wish you’d come here first to get some advise about the booking procedure. The “Notarial or other services” box does NOT get you a relinquishment appointment. Those are done only on designated days of the week. Tuesday used to be one of them but that might have changed. You have to e-mail the Calgary consulate to set up a relinquishment appointment specifically. They send you all the forms they want filled in and after you return those they offer you an appointment date which you can either accept or request an alternate. They’ll also advise you about any documentation you need to bring. You might find it difficult now to get an appointment prior to November 9th when the fee becomes $2350 but GOOD LUCK.
Re travel to the US while awaiting my CLN:
I’m in that awkward period post renunciation but not having received my CLN 6 months later. I’m happy to report no alarms or even questions were raised when I used my Canadian passport at Pearson airport for a short trip to New York this past weekend.
@ RLee
That’s good to hear. It’s possible they have information in their computers that your CLN is being processed. As a backup it’s good to at least carry a copy of the receipt for your renunciation fee payment. I hope your CLN arrives soon. Waiting is awful, isn’t it.
I just received my CLN!! What do I do when I cross the border? My passport will always have my birthplace.
Do you have to carry proof of Loss of Nationality?
@Free at Last,
I made a few notarized copies of my CLN in case I need them for banks or traveling. I haven’t traveled yet, but I’ll take a copy with me. The first time I enter the US, I plan to ask the agent if their system shows that I am not a US citizen and if I need to carry the CLN, etc.
Free at Last, I took a photocopy with me when I crossed at a land crossing. They didn’t ask for it, only took my Cdn passport. Easiest border crossing I’ve ever had.
@Free at Last,
BTW, Congratulations!!!
Thank you WhatamI and The Mom. I am traveling soon and thought it is an awful lot of paper to carry. I will make a copy and carry one with me. Thanks again for the advice!!
@Free at Last,
I’m only going to carry a copy of the 1-page certificate.
Congratulations, Free at Last!
Toronto told me to make a photocopy of the CLN and take the photocopy with me. My plan is to have a copy with me, but only take it out if the matter of birthplace comes up. It doesn’t seem to come up much, presumably because when a CLN is issued, DHS is notified for their database, but of course, best to play it safe.
There’s a thread here on border crossing, and Maple Sandbox has one too. You might want to check them occasionally (or before a US visit) to see how things are going as time goes on. So far, crossings seem to be pretty smooth.
BTW, would you let us know (1) which consulate you used, (2) the month you booked your appointment, (3) the month you had your appointment? I’d appreciate that as we’re keeping a time-chart at the back of the Consulate Report Directory. Thanks!
Congratulations to those getting some relief from all this! I just read the replies to my previous post and am happy to have gotten some answers. I do possess a US passport that was still used even after becoming a Canadian citizen (became Canadian in 2008, used passport in 2012). I understand this has probably ruined my chances of relinquishing. Is renunciation my only option now?
I do have an SSN I got from birth, but I’ve never lived or worked in the US, hence have never filed taxes. Do I have to start with that before booking a consular appointment?