Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@Atticus
I am now on the eve of my one year anniversary for relinquishing appointment, and no CLN either. I wonder if the idiotic shut-down that autumn didn’t mangle everything somehow. I don’t know.
@WhatAmI and EC
Not all lawyers agree with regard to interpretation of the law prior to 2004. It depends upon who you ask. Apparently some do not ask at all. A couple of us were discussing this yesterday over here:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/10/09/expatriation-appointments-at-vancouver/comment-page-6/#comment-2997815
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/10/09/expatriation-appointments-at-vancouver/comment-page-6/#comment-3003536
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/10/09/expatriation-appointments-at-vancouver/comment-page-7/#comment-3004181
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/10/09/expatriation-appointments-at-vancouver/comment-page-7/#comment-3010704
@lioness @Somerfugl Surprise, surprise! I got home today to a voice mail from the US Consulate in Vancouver asking me to call about my request for an appointment. I’m flabbergasted
@DM that’s great news! I haven’t heard anything yet. if we don’t hear soon, perhaps we could get the phone number from you?
@lioness Sure – let me call and see what they have to say and then I will pass it along
@DM That is great! It will be interesting to see when you get an appointment. I am still waiting.
to be sent to newspapers
A TAXING MARRIAGE TO AN ABUSIVE NEIGHBOUR
After finding myself in a by proxy arranged marriage of which I was unaware and do not want
I am filing for divorce.
Though I had known him since infancy, we had gone our separate ways years ago.
In 1999 I found out the marriage had taken place.
For several years the relationship was unremarkable and distant.
Then things turned ugly and I was expected to do things I found morally reprehensible and expensive, supporting his haibts.
I have been threatened and am being emotionally, psychologically, and financially abused.And I am suffering from stress. At 60 years old I have had enough.,
I hope the divorce will not be contested, for I will not continue to live this way.
I’ d like to remain on amicable terms as I care very much and want to visit people still connected to him. And some places are close to my heart.
It has been a costly forced marriage and will be a costly and perhaps lengthy divorce.
But when it is over, I will be single, or rather, I will be solely Canadian.
I am divorcing Uncle Sam
Jennifer Ellen Kolalrik
Vancouver BC
Brilliant! May the Divorce Force be with you, Jennifer.
Jennifer,
Bravo — no one should stay in an abusive marriage.
Great letter @Jennifer
Please let us know if it’s published. Are you sending to newspapers in the US too?
@Michael Putman, I am worried that the data base crash lost our documents and I wish there was some way to check and see if that indeed did occur. If you write to the consulate you will get the reply “case still pending” but, that does not clarify where in the world is our paperwork and at what stage in this process are we?? Can we expect to wait another year for such an important document? At the very least there should be some way to track this directly rather than bothering state with it. Some sort of numbered online tracking system so you can see if it is already processed or some sort of estimate as to where you are in the queue. Because frankly, beyond twelve months after all the work it is to do this and given how important those documents are is a bit much indeed.
@Duke of Devon
You asked that I should report back to the forum if I had a reply from the bank. Today I got a reply from ScotiaBank and it looks like all I have to do is fill out the W8-BEN and the account will not be flaged. So I hope that is the end. I will post when I get a final reply.
EC interesting. Quite a contrast to TD Bank
@EC, “This forum has been a life saver. ”
For you……for me……….for untold others……….
@all –
I have a daughter who has just turned 18. She was born dual – US and country X, least year we became citizens of country Y.
I was able to relinquish on the basis of taking this citizenship, she was still a minor at that point.
Is she now able to relinquish (should she chose to do so) or would she have to renounce? She has not used her US passport and does not have enough income to incur any tax liability.
Of she can relinquish is there a time limit? She is not entirely convinced she should.
Thanks…
@shunrata – renounce unfortunately…
8 U.S. Code § 1481
A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years;
@ shunrata
I have to agree with RMA, she cannot relinquish based on a naturalization that took place before she was 18.
Although it is unlikely to be a popular opinion here, I can understand her uncertainty regarding renouncing US citizenship at her age. While US citizenship is a tremendous burden for anyone who intends to permanently live outside the US, it is a tremendous advantage for anyone who intends to live in the US, and despite what anyone says, the US is still a place of great opportunity in education and careers.
However, she should be aware of the tax consequences, and when she does begin to make more income, try to come to a decision on her future. If she wants to keep putting it off, start filing US tax returns and keep her financial situation as simple as possible.
@RMA @TokyoRose,
Thanks for the info, I was hoping there was some path there. Rats.
Since she’s still unsure about it, and the renunciation fee is closing in on her yearly income, there is no way she will be doing it soon.
I hope for her sake that the legal challenges in the US succeed – or something. Before we get to the point of her beginning her form and tax servitude.
@All — DOS has published their updated 7 Fam 1200 — Specifically 7 Fam 1220 — Developing a case.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/120546.pdf
What I noticed new was:
Thanks for your comment, RMA. As well as interesting to others, it interests me regarding my son’s case — and others like him, those with a ‘mental incapacity’. I would still like to see that a parent, a guardian or a trustee of such a person would be able to “develop that case”.
What is anyone’s take on this statement:
I think you guys have it backward. Remember 7 FAM 1220 has 2 opposite purposes. In this case, Joe or Josephine ex pat, who voluntarily became a citizen of Elsewhere, decides he/she would like a new US passport and remain a dual.
US Consul says ‘but you became a citizen of Elsewhere’
‘But I did it under duress’
‘How so’
‘I couldn’t open a bank account’
‘Tough, that’s not good enough, you became a citizen of Elsewhere voluntarily : we’re not going to give you a passport’.
Well, I’m usually backwards in my thinking, so no dice.
So it comes down to whether a USC can “return” to the US? An argument could be made for those who’ve never lived there, I think. That would involve a lot of duals from birth. It’s impossible to “return” to somewhere you’ve never lived.
@ Bubblebustin
Your semantics would also preclude such things as “returning” children separated at birth to their natural parents or “returning” stolen art work to the heirs of the original owners, not to mention Christian and other religious notions of “returning” to heaven.
As in the past, the main purpose of 7 FAM 1220 and the other related manuals is to establish US citizenship for a claimant who does no presently possess it, not to primarily as a renunciation manual. I imagine that the reason for this is that there are many, many, many more people trying to claim US citizenship than those trying to lose it, and despite the upswing in renunciations, this is not likely to change at any time in the future.
@TokoRose
Perhaps it’s “return” in the biblical sense, as in “Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings…” – Jeremiah 3:22