Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@EC
Marriage is not a relinquishing act, as far as I know.
I’m an idiot. Not married, when I became a Canadian Citizen. Sorry about that.
@EC
Not an idiot, just someone who’s recently had their OMG moment and has had their life turned upside down. You sound like one of the more fortunate in that you will have only one fiery hoop to jump through (documenting a relinquishment, if you so choose).
@Bubblebustin
Choose,oh yes the sooner the better. I thought chose in 94, what a shock. Yes the sooner the better.
@EC,
It sounds like you’re in a great position, as long as you haven’t done anything after naturalizing as a Canadian to “act like an American” such as voting, using or renewing a US passport, filing US taxes, etc.
@WhatAmI
Not a thing. No SSN, no Passport, no voting, no filing of tax because no SSN. Maybe was in the US for 30 days in the past 65 years.
@EC,
That’s perfect. You just give them your history and that you intended to relinquish your USC at the time when you became a Canadian in 1994, and you have not done anything to act as a USC since.
@WhatAmI.
Great. So should they backdate the CNL to Dec. 1994? Then I would only have to deal with tax for the previous 5 years from 1994. Or am I missing something?
EC. You are missing something HUGE.. You don’t do any taxes whatsoever. NADA. Bugger all. Read the link on relinquishment prior to 1995 again.
@Duke of Devon
My take on the 1996 amendment is that if you:
Special rule. –
“(A) In general. – In the case of an individual who performed
an act of expatriation specified in paragraph (1), (2), (3), or
(4) of section 349(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8
U.S.C. 1481(a)(1)-(4)) before February 6, 1995, but who did not,
on or before such date, furnish to the United States Department
of State a signed statement of voluntary relinquishment of United
States nationality confirming the performance of such act, the
amendments made by this section and section 512 [enacting section
6039F of this title] shall apply to such individual except that
the 10-year period described in section 877(a) of such Code shall
not expire before the end of the 10-year period beginning on the
date such statement is so furnished.
“(B) Exception. – Subparagraph (A) shall not apply if the
individual establishes to the satisfaction of the Secretary of
the Treasury that such loss of United States citizenship occurred
before February 6, 1994.”
I don’t quite understand the 10 year period.
EC. Forget about the 10 year rule. These laws were changed after the fact and most agree do not apply retroactively. Read the post again.
Forget the 10 year rule. Forget filing anything. You are free!
Consider a donation to ADCS with al the time and money you will save.
@EC,
Also read “For those who expatriated before June 3, 2004” on the sidebar, which some number of people believe extends the cut-off date for tax-free relinquishment to June 3, 2004. The Form 8854, which is the key to certifying tax compliance and determines covered expat status, says “Form 8854 is used by individuals who have expatriated on or after June 4, 2004”. There is no mention of expatriating prior to June 4, 2004.
This has been discussed many times on this website, but off the top of my head I’m not aware of anyone who expatriated prior to 2004 (and especially prior to 1995) who filed back taxes (unless they did so before finding IBS).
You have the most straight-forward and desirable situation for a past relinquishment claim.
@Duke of Devon
So what do I take to the bank to prevent them from sending any information to CRA who the will send it to IRS?
EC. 2 options.. 1). Go ahead and get your CLN. You are then free. Do nothing else.
2). Don’t bother getting a CLN. You said you rarely if ever have gone to the states in 65 yr. so that’s not an issue. Your bank will not be an issue either. Do they know where you were born?- probably not. Do you have a non-registered account over a million? Believe me , your bank will not trouble you. If, by some unlikely ( 1 in a million) chance, they were to ask, your answer would be- ” I relinquished my US citizenship when I became Canadian and CLNs were unheard of then”
@EC, go to a lawyer and swear a Statutory Declaration that describes the actions you did, that you voluntarily and intentionally relinquished and the dates you did all this.
If a bank wants something, you can give them that.
@lioness, @Joe, I also requested a relinquishing appointment and sent the forms to Vancouver a couple of weeks ago and have heard nothing from them. It is ridiculous that they won’t respond in a reasonable time just to book an appointment.
@somerfugl & @joe I’m tempted to go down there next week. haven’t heard anything…cant really believe that they wouldn’t even ack an email for an apt!
@EC
With regard to the bank, the regulation says a CLN or reasonable alternative.
Do you have proof of Canadian citizenship with a date, such as the old plastic wallet card?
@Tricia Moon
Yes I have all required documents. I am working with the bank as we speak. It’s a real problem now because with the consulates being so busy and only being open 4 hours a day they are falling behind. Hence the long waiting times for CLN’s which the bank would prefer.
@George
Would that be the same as self certification?
EC. Who initiated contact with the bank? You or the bank. If it was the bank, why? This is important for others to know.
Self certification can be simply signing a form such as a W8 BEN stating ‘I am not a US Person’ along with proof you are Canadian ( a passport or naturalization certificate) and a ‘reasonable explanation why you don’t have a CLN . ‘
W8 BEN is frequently used by all FIs to document non USness.
A reasonable explanation would be ‘ I relinquished 25 yrs. ago. At that time, there was no requirement to notify the US and CLNs were unheard of.’
@Duke of Devon
Unfortunately I did. I have sent an email to the bank stating exactly what you have outlined. I will post when I get a reply. The one thing I should say to everyone is make sure you inform yourself as to everything concerning FATCA. I went to a Lawyer for advice but I don’t think even the Lawyers seem to have the right answers. He suggested I go to a tax account and find out what the ramification would be regarding taxes. When I went to the accountant he said that I had to have a SSN to complete the tax process. This is even after I told both the Lawyer and accountant that I was a Canadian Citizen in 1994. So that would tell me that they don’t understand the situation regarding FATCA.
EC Thank you for your prompt reply. You haven’t heard back from the bank. The banks haven’t even begun to review pre existing accounts. I strongly believe that it will work out fine for you. Hang tight.
Now, just for the sake of argument, and don’t take this to heart, suppose your bank gave your account no. to the CRA who in turn gave it to the IRS. What do you imagine they could do except perhaps send you a computer generated form asking for more information? Bugger all else.
@EC,
And they don’t understand the situation regarding US citizenship. I went to a citizenship lawyer, and he only seemed to talk about the law as it is today. To be fair, these lawyers have made a career helping people fight to get or retain US citizenship, whereas now people are trying to lose it. As you have seen, it’s crucial to understand the law the way it was at the time and the changes that have occurred since. The bottom line is that you need to know more than all of these professionals before you talk to them or take actions based on their advice.
@Duke of Devon
Well maybe not much in the short term, but I don’t trust none of them anymore. What I still intend on doing is going in and formally relinquishing. Even if it takes 12 months to get the CLN I will know that it’s over. These people can change and amend the law at any time and I will not go through this again.
@WhatAmI
This forum has been a life saver. And I appreciate everyones guidance and suggestions. Without it I would have made a lot of mistakes. Hell I even got a call from Mr.Kish from ADCS on Sunday.