Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@Saddened, I too am so pleased for you!!!! I know how relieved and ecstatic you must feel! 😀 😀 😀
@saddened123
Re: My CLN is IN and I am OUT. YEA!!! YEA!! Dancing and singing!!!
CONGRATULATIONS and guess what …Mine also just arrived after almost 9 months…so we are a singing and dancing duet. Now just to do the final filings (this will be a “fun” weekend)
Best regards to all!
To: saddened and allou,
You’ve come a long, long way. I am so glad you are now finally at the end of your particular US citizenship nightmare. All the best to you!!!!
@Allou, congratulations for you too!!!
@calgary411 and others
Thank you so much. I seriously doubt that I could have done it without the fantastic help here at IBS. Phil Hodgens has also been very kind and prompt in replying to a couple of emails I sent him. IBS persons have differing views on some topics, understandable as we live in different countries, with all the variations of income, work status, family status etc that folks everywhere have.
One suggestion I have is to establish a link with standardised examples – “John is a USC and permanent resident in another country. All his income is from XX and XX and is taxed at source in his country of residence. John can file form XXX, form YYY etc.” That would be a big help for DIY filers. I know the IRS instructions have many examples, but they can be difficult to understand and most seem to be written from the perspective of remaining a USC.
Where I live there are thousands of persons who have not yet had their OMG moment. There are no (as yet) US compliance industry firms (except for the ones catering to international firms=hugely expensive) and no information in the media (I have tried, but the media is apparently not interested)
As usual, good luck to all doing the drudgery!
Thank you so much Calgary411, Blaze, Monaliza1776 and Allou, It is really a wonderful feeling to be done. Now sending off the final filing and 8854, then I will really feel happy. Congratulation Allou, so happy for you!!
Special Thanks to,Pacifica, Calgary411, Blaze, for all your kindness and help during this Horrible Ordeal..I know I drove you all crazy!
@ saddened123
Wonderful news! If you don’t change your name to “ecstatic” as Blaze suggests then at least consider “gladdened123”. You drove nobody crazy here — we are all DIYers in that department.
@ allou
Wonderful news for you too! It’s nice to wake up and immediately read about two happy dances going on. 🙂
@saddened123 and @allou,
Wonderful news! Congratulations!
@saddened,
That’s wonderful! So happy for you. What a relief!
@saddened – do you get to be a happy frog now?
@allou, congratulations to you too!
@Shunrata, Thank you so much! It is very exciting! I am a happy frog for sure!
@saddened123 & allou, Congratulations to you both. CLN’s are certainly busting out all over at the moment to paraphrase the song. One more step completed on the road to freedom.
@all
Thanks for the congratulations – it is a strange new feeling not to be waiting and waiting and …..still a tinge sad that it came to this, but very enlightened, and lightened – a wonderful way to welcome Spring
@saddened, @allou,
Just saw your posts about finally receiving your CLN. Congratulations! I know how happy and relieved you must feel. I sure felt relieved when my arrived a few months ago. If you haven’t done so already, go out and celebrate!!!
@kalc,
I have appreciated reading your level-headed (and often calming) advice on this and other threads of IBS. It’s not that I want to file a 1040/1040nr, it’s just that it seems like this is what is required based on Phil Hodgen’s comments (and others) and on pub 519. It seems like people who had their final year tax forms done by a professional always seem to have filed the 1040 statement and the 1040nr dual status return. It would sure be simpler to just file a 1040 which covers worldwide income up to expatriation date and 8854 and let it go at that, but I’d hate to do that and have the IRS reject it. I got the impression from reading Serbinski forum that if you are a Canadian then you have the option to file only the 1040 but in that case you’d need to file it for your worldwide income for the whole year, which seems ridiculous to be declaring non- U.S. source income earned after your expatriation date and having the possibility of paying U.S. tax on some of it.
@moonstruck
Thanks for the congratulations. I have reached the same conclusion as you, the 1040NR (full of 0’s ) will be the filing and the 1040 and related forms are the statement. If it boomerangs I can filed amended, but I am following Phil H’s advice.
@moonstruck, Thank you for the Congratulations! It is a wonderful feeling!
@monalisa1776,
Thank you so much for providing detailed info on how your accountant filed your 1040/1040nr. It all seems rather complicated so I can see why you didn’t want to do this yourself. I must admit though that after reading through your comments I find some of it perplexing still.
you wrote:
” she only listed my income on the 1040-NR itself and left the income on the 1040 blank; she typed ‘dual status – return’ on the top of 1040-NR and ‘Dual status – statement’ at the top of my 1040.
I also need to point out that she did, however, list out in detail all my types of income on the various schedules attached to 1040 such as schedule B for interest and ordinary dividends; schedule D for capital gains and losses; 8949 for listing out various capital gains and losses; 1116 for: passive income; general category income; 6251 for AMT calculations; plus a second version of 1116 to calculate using AMT (which I didn’t have to pay); 2555 (which the IRS rejected in my case for some mysterious reason); 8854; 8938; plus several tax worksheets showing how she determined my taxes for schedules D and 1116.”
My understanding is that she left most of the 1040 blank, except for the first sections about identifying info, filing status, and exemptions, is that correct? Instead she entered all the income data on the 1040 schedules (schedule B, D, 8949 etc) and any tax credits or adjustments on other forms like 1116, 2555, etc and then transfered all the income info from the schedules onto the corresponding lines of 1040nr in the section “income effectively connected with U.S. trade/business”. and the credits/adjustments in corresponding lines of 1040nr – Is that corrected?
I presume that she did not write any dates at the top of either 1040 or 1040nr?
As for the exemptions, yes, I understand that we can claim our own personal exemption of $3,900 and that we cannot claim the standard deduction if we file 1040nr, though it seems weird that she didn’t put anything for the filing status or check any exemptions on the 1040. I would have thought we should file these in on the 1040 even if it is a statement, but who knows.
Two last questions for you:
1. Did the income carried from the 1040 include any U.S. sourced income or was it only non U.S.?
2. On schedule OI, how did she answer question F about a change of immigration status?
I think it’s weird that the IRS refused your 2555 but I definitely agree with you that its not worth fussing with them about this for a small amount of money. Just be happy that your ordeal is finally over with.
I can’t wait to reach that point.
Congrats to @allou, and @saddened 123. Heartening to see everyone reach the end of their journeys and reach their destination, one by one.
best,
badger
@badger, Thank you!! It has been a long journey!!
@saddened123
Wow! I never get a chance to kepe up with reading anymore but by chance am seeing this tonight. Am so happy for you and congrats after such a very long journey!
An unscientific poll is collecting perspectives of – POLL: Why do you think there has been a recent surge in United States citizens living outside the U.S. renouncing or relinquishing?
Weigh in with your answer.
http://tax-expatriation.com/2014/05/04/poll-why-do-you-think-there-has-been-a-recent-surge-in-united-states-citizens-living-outside-the-u-s-renouncing-or-relinquishing/
Whitekat.since you asked…. It starts with the definition of non resident alien. I’m a non resident alien, You are a NRA from the day you renounce.Then move to the requirement ,or not, to file a 1040 NR. There is no requirement in Pub 519 for a NRA to file if he/she has no US source income. Period.
Forget Mona Lisa’s accountant. If you followed that sad tale you would know that ML was taken for a ride. Forget Serbinski. They are in the business of making money for themselves. Hodgen is a better source.
If you have no income to report, you have no obligation to file.
Social security is not taxed or reported on a us return if you are resident in Canada. By treaty it is reported on your canadian return.
I suppose that, if you wish, you can file a 1040NR with a whole bunch of zeroes. Seems like a waste of time and paper to me. It does have the advantage that it clogs up the system. It doesn’t matter in the end because they don’t have any time or interest to bother you.
@KalC
Yes, a 1040NR with a bunch of zeros is what I ended up with. Do you have any idea if the dates at the top of the 1040/1040 should be filled in? For example the 01-01-13 to day before renunciation on the 1040 and if one files a 1040NR the day of renunciation to the end of the year? Either way, one can always file amended if needs be. It is such a relief to be almost finished with this compliance drudgery. Thanks for any additional remarks!
It doesn’t matter. Do what seems right.