Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
Oh shoot, missed that. Pacifica already posted one version of an interim letter. Anyway, with that in hand, you should have no problem entering the USA with only a UK passport.
@ Em,
That’s okay. You could post your husband’s Calgary version too.
BTW, I’m glad this came up — because it got me thinking about his relinquishment and as a result I just realised I never put your report into the Consulate Report Directory. Sorry about that. I’ll put it in the next edition for sure.
@ pacifica777
Ah yes, my husband’s consulate experience. My only part was to pace back and forth waiting for him. 🙂 This was the interim letter he got from the Calgary consulate:
This is to confirm that you, [….], born […] in […], personally appeared at the U.S. Consulate General today. You signed a Statement of Voluntary Relinquishment before a Consular Officer of the United States to relinquish your U.S. citizenship under Section 349(a)(1) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.
The loss of nationality documents will be sent to the Department of State in Washington, DC for final approval and you will receive a Certificate of Loss of Nationality if your relinquishment is approved. The Certificate of Loss of Nationality is the sole legal document establishing your loss of nationality. Pending approval of the certificate, you remain a U.S. citizen.
Your valid U.S. passport number […] issued on […] at the National Passport Center has been retained by the U.S. Consulate General.
We will not issue a replacement passport.
Verity. It’s clear to me that you will be much more comfortable if you delay your consulate appointment until after your trip.
@ Mona Lisa Why did they reject the FEIE? I understood that was allowed until the date of expatriation, so ok on the 1040? Not on the 1040 NR part, though. I have tax credits for the full amount, but in didn’t think it was a problem. What happened? I’ll be filing in the next month or so for a renunciation in 2013.
Does anyone know if it is possible / advisable to claim a refund in the exit year?
I’d been wondering and I see here MonaLisa’s experience. I have always used foreign tax credits though.
I’ll be asking my accountant the same question but was wondering if anyone else had personal experience.
@RevSusi and @Shunrata, I don’t fully understand why the IRS denied me the FEIE but the woman on the phone said she believed it was because they were basing the return on the 1040-NR, so they wouldn’t allow 2555 on my 1040 since it was merely the statement section attached to the 1040-NR.
I believe that had my accountant just used foreign tax credits via 1116 that I would have received the full refund. But the problem I have is that if I bring it up to my accountant, they’ll inevitably use this as an excuse to increase my accounting bill. It costs money to amend tax returns and play ping pong, obviously…and as we’re talking about less than $300, I think I would be sensible not to fight over small potatoes, especially as I just want closure and not to have this dragging on and on.
I realize that I could attempt amending it myself but don’t know where that might leave me regarding 8854; would I have to resubmit that firm again too??? I admittedly find form 1116 too complex to risk attempting on my own so think I’m just going to write the few hundred off…at least I realize that they’ve received my return and was actually pleasantly surprised that I even got any portion of my refund back.
Of course it still rankles, as it seems capricious but I’ve got to be pragmatic here. At least I’m nearing the very end of what’s been the most stressful three years of my life!!!
I will also be relieved when I’ve finally been invoiced because my accountant never finalised what she’ll be charging for this final paperwork. My instincts tell me though to do it all with a minimum of fuss because hair-splitting will just give them more excuses to raise their fees. I have to stay on good terms with them because I would need to be able to rely on their help if I ever get audited though, which is still a possibility. It does seem odd that they haven’t billed me though, even though it’s been almost two months since they completed the work!
I don’t know if I have a legal obligation to chase them for a bill or just patiently wait for an invoice… In a way, I hope the forget but would feel better to have full closure so I can hopefully put all this finally behind me.
@ monalisa. I’m no tax accountant, but I don’t think that’s right. Of course they won’t allow the FEIE on a 1040-NR, and you don’t need it. But you were a fully paid up American on the 1040, and allowed the deduction, it seems to me. I read that in their notes someplace, I think. I wonder if anyone else among us has had the experience? I’ll pass it on to my tax person, anyway.
@Rev Susi, I agree that it doesn’t seem right but I would need my accountant’s help to resolve this which would wind up costing me more than just letting it rest, me thinks….but my advice would be for people to just rely on foreign tax credits via 1116 for the final filing. Good luck! 🙂
Of course this whole thing is unfair but at least I’m almost through.
@monalisa
And thank goodness for that!
@RevSusi , Monalisa
Re: final filing and FEIE
Thank you for your comments. I realise now that since I have absolutely no US income/assests that my best path is to file the 1040 + 2555EZ with the amount adjusted for the number of days up to my renunciation. Then the 8854 and that’s it. No need for a 1040NR. I am unsure of whether I have to adjust the personal exemption on 1040 (Line 6a and line 42) to reflect that it a part-year return or just use standard amount. Any way I do it, the end result is 0 tax owed. Any additional comments welcomed.
@allou. By my reading of the instructions, you can take the full personal exemption but not the expenses allowance. Not pro-rated for the partial year, because that exemption is for citizens and aliens, so it applies to the full year. But I’m willing to listen to wiser heads than mine on any tax point.
@Under the Radar
are you saying destroy the expired passport and continue on with living life and don’t worry about it?
@Rev Susi
Re: FEIE – the full personal exemption would be the “1” married filing separately on line 6a which is computed on line 42=$3900. I get that. The standard exemption on line 40 would be $6100 for a USC for the full tax year. I assume this is the deduction I cannot take for a part-year filing. I had originally checked box 39b, as I thought I was considered a dual-status alien. But since I have no US income/assets either before or after renunciation, logic tells me I am NOT dual status. I was simply “single status USC” up to the renunciation. Thereafter I was …nothing…as far as the US tax system is concerned. I checked out (and left)…Thank you again!
@Allou and @Rev Susi, I was told that the correct way is to file a 1040-NR for the whole calendar year but to only declare on worldwide income up to when I renounced and US-sourced income only during the remainder of the year as a Non-Resident Alien. I attached a 1040 to the 1040-NR as an attached statement. So it was only one tax return. If you don’t send a 1040-NR, it could cause extra confusion.
This is why I only claimed the personal exemption of $3900, as dual status returns don’t allow the standard deduction. I’m not clear about the foreign earned income exclusion. You might want to just rely on form 1116 instead of 2555 to bring your tax bill to zero.
Silverview. Precisely! Very good advice.
Report on visit to Vancouver Consulate for relinquishment, April 2014
Hi all. Just to let BC residents know that the staff inside the Vancouver office were very friendly and helpful. The first person I saw (the assistant, for lack of a better term) made sure that my answeres were clearly stating I relinquished when I became a Canadain citizen, and the sencond guy (I think his title was Consular Officer) processed everything efficiently and was also friendly. FWIW he said my case was more straighforward than average (I became a Canuck in 2011, got my passport right away, never did “American things” since then).
Getting INTO the building, however, is a total pain in the neck. You’re not allowed any type of bag, including a briefcase, backpack, or large purse. They tell you you have to go across the street and pay to leave it in a local business, but they won’t even tell you which ones will do this. (Answer: Quiznos for $10.) Also no liquids, so there went my $2 coffee. And a biggie is no electronics of any kind, including cell phones and garage door clickers. (Cuz who would walk around with a cell phone?) All this despite the fact they have an airport scanner, so it really was unnecessary. Frankly, it made me glad I’m leaving/have left!
@CycleVancouver “never did “American things” since then”
Could you elaborate? File US taxes, vote in US, use a US Passport, travel to USA.
What was the status of your US passport from 2011 to 2014?
@ Verity –
My 2.5 cents from Canada – Get your US passport and take your trip with your 2 children. If you’ve booked the trip already, it’s probably already booked at the airline with indication that you will be entering with a US passport (or should be). This way, all of you will be on the same passport as you go through customs so won’t draw any questions (I had this nasty experience 20 years ago when hubby and I came in to US on our US passports and age 22 son, standing right behind us, decided to bring only his Cdn passport – GR#@>?!! – – and now in 2014 customs folks are even touchier about things like this). This also will give you a bit more time to get all your plans and paperwork in order for you & your son’s Renunciation meeting. Have a good trip and then say good-bye to the US.
@pacifica777 @Em @monalisa1776 @KalC @LM
Thank you all for your advice and comments. It’s the kind of experiences that Em and LM describe that worry me and KalC has hit the nail on the head saying that I will be much more comfortable delaying my embassy visit. If I were travelling in emergency circumstances on my own, I might be prepared to risk using my UK passport and a letter from the embassy. Travelling with two youngsters (who will be tired and grumpy after a transatlantic flight) and then encountering difficulties entering the US just doesn’t bear thinking about.
I will ask the embassy for a letter when we do eventually renounce after our trip, as we have elderly relations in the US and there is always the possibility that an emergency visit may be required before the CLN arrives.
I’ve been reading the reports on consulate visits and have been heartened that the experiences with the London embassy have been positive. We’ve had to visit the London embassy several times over the years to renew the children’s US passports and the staff there have always been polite and helpful – even when they tell you you can’t bring your car keys in and have to pay to leave them with the pharmacy down the road.
@Cyclist: A couple of years ago, someone reported here that a woman was required to ditch a tube of lipstick before she could enter Vancouver Consulate.
That’s what happened during my last experience at the consulate, Blaze, which made me laugh when Liam Pleven at WSJ wanted to bring a camera into the consulate when Atticus renounced! FAT CHANCE!
Headline Vancouver Sun: US Consulate Declares Bubblebustin’ The Lipstick Terrorist
Quote from Blaze: “This is shocking. I’ve known BB for over two years and I never suspected.”
LOL, Blaze! The lipstick was fully loaded and lasts 12 hours, making it prolonged siege!
@George:
Yes, by “American things” I mean I never filed taxes, have a job/income/property/bank in USA, didn’t even have a valid passport. This was all since 2006 when I emigrated, but for their purposes they use 2011 when I swore eternal allegiance to the Queen and her spoiled offspring. 😉