Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
i’ll be partying with my CLN in hand on Canada Day. I received it in the mail yesterday. The expatriating date is October 1985. Of course the IRS 8854 puts a damper on the party, but I don’t think that it applies to me.
Congratulations, Dawid! I’m really happy to read that you got your CLN — because it took so bloody long to get your second appointment. Terrific, now your life is officially back to normal!
I don’t think 8854 applies to you either (but I’m the first to say my opinion counts for nothing when it comes to US tax law). At any rate, it seems pretty much all of us pre-2004s feel it doesn’t apply to long-ago relinquishers because the current law (and its predecessors) did not exist at the time. Here’s links to some posts with legal opinions about pre-2004 relinquishers.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/02/16/pre-1995-relinquishers-and-the-irs-three-recent-legal-opinions/
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/03/05/michael-miller-paper-on-the-exit-tax-applies-propsectively/
Happy 100% Canadian Day on the receipt of your CLN, Dawid — and Canada Day on July 1st. You should now be as free as any other Canadian without a US Person indicia to go across that nearby border. Many congratulations from those who followed your progress.
@dawid,
Congratulations on receipt of your CLN. I don’t remember all the details – how long between your 2nd meeting and receipt of the CLN?
Congratulations! Don’t forget to buy the red and white pinwheels, sparklers and a red shirt that clearly says CANADA on it. Happy for you.
ALL, Thanks for your encouragement and advice over the past year and a bit.
Pacifica, I have read those pre-2004 prognostications a few times and hope they’re right.
Calgary, Canadians do like warm beaches and I’m no exception. (Hope you’re sitting high and dry)
Tiger, my second appointment was 11 weeks ago. It took them 8 weeks to approve it, and another 3 weeks to mail it. Its not exactly stellar performance but at least its done.
Banany, I’ve got my shirt, I’m thinking about a flag for the front of the house.
Cheers!
All,
I am sitting high and dry, Dawid, but our area of Calgary is on standby for evacuation. Adjacent communities have already evacuated. We are a bit higher but on Memorial Drive across from the Bow River. We picked up my son and his roommate as their week’s (special needs) camp in Kananaskis came to an abrupt end and all 55 campers evacuated. We are sleeping in our clothes and have bags packed ready to go get in the car and drive north if necessary. Hopefully, that won’t be necessary. My daughter has gone to stay with a friend. We’ll all be fine. Anyway, glad all our US tax forms and 8854’s are GONE!!
@ calgary411
Thinking about you and hoping you stay high and dry. Our area in Southern Alberta was affected but compared to other areas we have been pretty fortunate. The water in our raging creeks has been going down since late Thursday afternoon but it’s raining again now. We did a driving tour Thursday afternoon after they allowed traffic to leave our neighbourhood. The sight of the water release at the Old Man Reservoir Dam was beyond description. This whole thing is surreal. We helped out after the 1995 flood in High River and now I’m certain those same homes will be facing a big cleanup again. Too too sad. Anyway, it has to feel good to have won your release from form prison. Good luck to you and all Alberta Brockers in the flood zones.
Thanks so much, Em.
Proud to be part of such a caring society where I live. You take special care too!
Like Dawid and others, I will be partying on Canada Day with my CLN in hand. It arrived this morning. My date of expatriation is October, 1972.
I must admit that I am feeling numb. As has been mentioned by others using the Vancouver consulate, they include Form 8854 which most definitely puts a damper on feeling euphoric. However, I am reminding myself and will continue to remind myself, that we have had the opinions of quite a few lawyers who state that the form does not pertain to long ago relinquishers like myself.
This site has been invaluable as a resource. Without it I would not have the CLN in hand. I am so grateful that I found IBS in January 2012.
When the postman was at my door to get the signature, I said to him that I had been waiting for this package for 41 years. He looked rather startled and said, ‘my that is a very long time. You must be a patient person’.
@ tiger
I’ve fallen behind on congratulations for everyone getting past their consulate interviews and getting their CLNs eventually. I just didn’t want your good news to get by me too. Sorry they made you chase that tiger tail of yours around so much but that’s all behind you, now that you have that CLN in your hand. Congratulations! I’ll be waving my Canadian flag for you and others on July 1st. I think you can file that blank 8854 in the same place USCIS filed my I-407 application. 🙂
@Dawid, well done and congratulations. Another one set free.
@Calgary411 and everyone else threatened by flooding, hope it missed you all. Weather has been really terrible all over the world lately. Even here in Switzerland we’ve had floods, India, Canada, US – weather isn’t discrminatory. Just heard my cousin’s house in the States got flooded due to the F5 tornado that hit at the end of May. Real shame as they are just getting ready to sell the place. At least they’re all safe and I hope you all are too.
@Tiger
Congratulations!!!
Your persistence in this – and your diligence in recording and sharing it – have been heroic.
You’ve rendered a valuable public service to other Canadians.
@tiger
Vancouver seems to be the only consulate that includes 8854 with the CLN’s they issue. They truly seem to be a “rogue” consulate.
I know what you mean about reassuring yourself with the various legal opinions posted here on ancient relinquishment dates – I do that constantly. I will probably always be looking over my shoulder for the IRS to come calling and what a waste of time that is.
Again, congratulations and let that euphoria out!
London sent the 8854 to me along with notes when they sent the forms needed to prepare for the renunciation interview. So Vancouver isn’t the only one. This way, nobody can say they didn’t know. You are told that the CLN isn’t the end; your last tax return and the 8854 is. Unless you have American income, in which case, death is the end…
To all who have been thinking of flooding victims and hoping we are OK, thank you so much. We are as of yesterday back in our home and, except for evacuation, unaffected, unlike so many of our neighbours in Calgary, Canmore, High River and other southern Alberta communities — and now going into Saskatchewan. My family is so grateful and so very lucky. Thanks again.
Rev Susi,
Perhaps even death is not the end for some whose “estates” go to US Persons (children) who are unable to renounce because of “mental incapacity” and their parents, guardians, trustees without the right to renounce on their behalf, even with a court order.
@Tiger, I want to add my congratulations to you, especially after the long ordeal the Vancouver consulate put you through.
@Rev Susi, form 8854 is relevant to people who renounce their citizenship now, but it is completely irrelevant to someone like Tiger who relinquished citizenship in 1972. So by sending it to Tiger, the people at the Vancouver consulate are still being obtuse. My CLN is from 1979 and the Toronto consulate didn’t send me an 8854.
By the way, we who have been through the CLN process now have a “secret” code with which we can greet and identify each other: 4079, 4080, 4081, 8854.
The wait for the State Department to make public how many CLNs they have been issuing goes on an’ on an’ on. Surely the number is not an official state secret, just an embarrassment (but then many government embarrassments are hidden by declaring them “secret” on grounds of “national security”). In this case, of course, the embarrassment is that there is such a “leak” of citizenship from that Most Wonderful Nation on Earth.
@AnonAnon,
Thanks for your congratulations. I agree, the Vancouver consulate is obtuse handing out the Form 8854 as part of ‘their’ package. Someone suggested to me that they are showing themselves to be ‘passive aggressive’. Another adjective might be ‘bully’. The 4083 recognizes our early dates of expatriation (1972, 1979 etc) and then they still think we should ‘comply’ and file tax returns, FBARs and Forms 8854. Not ‘bloodly’ likely!!!!
Well, of course, I don’t think that death is the end either, but perhaps the USG isn’t thinking of the same thing I do. At least my version gives me hope, that theological virtue that has a hard time finding expression in this whole benighted process. You’re forced to think their way, which leads to despair. I’m sorry.
FREEDOM!
Much to my shock, I just pulled my CLN from my mailbox!
Appt made online: Feb. 2013
Renounced Toronto: March 12, 2013
CLN stamped in DC: June 6, 2013
CLN mailed from Toronto Consulate: June 19, 2013
CLN received June 25, 2013
!!!! : D
Wow, yet another CLN received today! They’re coming out of the embassies like confetti. Hoorah! Congratulations The Mom. Hope you were keeping a bottle of champers in the fridge.
@The Mom and Tiger,
Congratulations to you both!
@The Mom,
Congratulations!!! I know exactly how you are feeling. And what a great timeline for you. The Toronto Consulate does sound like a ‘class act’. Medea is correct – the CLNs seem to be coming out of the Canadian consulates like confetti. Halifax and Vancouver last week – Vancouver and Toronto this week. And how many more there might be that we here at IBS don’t even know about.
Congratulations, The Mom!
Glad to hear you’re officially free! As I recall, you only lived there for a few months as an infant while your family was there temporarily — what a pain. So, I’m glad that at least your CLN came sooner than expected. And in time to make Canada Day a double celebration this year!
Thanks for providing your timeline, too!