Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
So I got my paperwork ready and submitted my request for a Loss of Nationality appointment along with the two questionnaires by email to the consulate in Toronto yesterday (October 7, 2014). Their reply was that they are fully booked for LoN appointments through the end of May, 2015 and they are not currently accepting appointments for June, July and August. I should resubmit my request along with the documents in “early November”. I also emailed the Embassy in Ottawa to ask if they were booking earlier appointments. Then last night I read here that someone who had been put off similarly in September and sent their request again October 1 was given an appointment for April 2, 2015. So between October 1 and October 7 two months worth of appointments (however many that may be) were fully booked. I feel like it’s a bit of a lottery to even get an appointment! BTW: Ottawa replied that sadly the situation is no better there.
@RLee
My God, it is getting as bad as we feared. So sorry your agony will be prolonged. Sooner or later, the US gov is not going to be able to lie about the numbers.
The current New Yorker has a story of a young black man falsely accused of theft. He was kept in pre trial prison in NYC for 2 years (half the time in solitary)
The idea was to wear him down with delay after delay after delay until he pled guilty just to get out some day. The prosecution had no case because the accuser had disappeared but they didn’t care. He refused to plea because he was innocent
Sounds like the TO consulate works on the same principle. Delay, delay delay-maybe they’ll give up.
@ RLee,
Thanks very much for sharing this information. I’m really sorry you’re stuck with such a long wait.
It was pretty easy to get an appt within about a month at Toronto during most of 2012-2013.
In early 2012, wait time was around 2 weeks. It crept up to around as much as 6 weeks or so by late Spring 2014, maybe a bit more if you had to wait for the next month’s sign-up chart to go on-line (they only had the current month and the following month’s sign-up charts available for use at any given time).
So wait time was increasing, which is never good, but it seemed to do so pretty consistently until late Spring 2014, at which time it was around 6 weeks.
Then it jumped up big-time.
Late 2011/Early 2012 – a few weeks
2012-Late Spring 2014 – it slowly increased to about 6 weeks
August 20, 2014 – January 2015 (5 months)
August 27, 2014 – February 2015 (6 months)
October 1, 2014 – May 2015 (7 months)
October 7, 2014 – June 2015 (8 months)
I’m wondering if it’s that Toronto started getting really swamped with appointment requests when media coverage finally started racheting up beginning around July 1st as FATCA came into effect – or if it’s that they’ve really cut back on the appointments they’re making available – immensely so – because they were making between 144-192 available per month (2012-Spring 2014)).
This is really awful for persons who need to get this overwith and start living their normal lives again.
@ RLee
Also you wrote that you’d e-mailed Ottawa and “Ottawa replied that sadly the situation is no better there.”
I know 2 persons who booked at Ottawa this year, both in early Spring. At that time, Ottawa’s wait time was about 2 weeks.
@Pacifica777, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve been told to cut back on the numbers. Combine that with the increased fee and it certainly sounds like a tactic the US government would use.
@ RLee,
One other thing – there’s the possibility of travelling.
Back in August, Krackerjack121, a Canadian, contacted 10-15 consulates, apparently in Mexico and the Caribbean. A couple of them were able to book him in a week or two. He went to Tijuana.
Here’s some comments Krackerjack made about his consulate search. (Sometimes the links don’t work right. If not, scroll to August 27th on the “State Dept to Hike Renunciation Fees …” thread.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/08/27/state-department-to-hike-renunciation-fees-to-us2350-says-no-public-benefit-in-respecting-human-right-to-change-nationality/comment-page-9/#comment-2812083
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/08/27/state-department-to-hike-renunciation-fees-to-us2350-says-no-public-benefit-in-respecting-human-right-to-change-nationality/comment-page-9/#comment-2810964
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/08/27/state-department-to-hike-renunciation-fees-to-us2350-says-no-public-benefit-in-respecting-human-right-to-change-nationality/comment-page-8/#comment-2807197
You’re supposed to be able to renounce at any consulate in the world, according to DoS Legal Affairs Dept. But some consulates make their own rules and a couple of them say they’ll only take people from their consular district – which one could probably get overridden, but that could take even longer and result in a wasted trip. So, if I were travelling a long distance, I’d let them know where I was coming from, as it appears Krackerjack did – that’s just my 2c, though.
This really pisses me off. This US government-enforced delay should force the US ambassador to publically account for US government inaction, further entrapping Canadians.
@ MedeaFleecestealer, I wouldn’t be surprised by either hypothesis (vastly increased number of appointment requests or deliberate cut-back), so I agree with your comment. I found the timing interesting in terms of both the increased media coverage here in July and in terms of the 422% fee increase in August.
@ The Mom, Me too!
I think MPs, particularly Conservative need to be harassed about this.
The Mom,
I have not seen any evidence of any US Ambassador to Canada caring a fig about *US Persons* in Canada. I can no longer try to converse with a US Ambassador (as I did try with foot-in-his-mouth US Ambassador David Jacobson (…he spent much of his career working in the Chicago offices of Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal, a major international law firm. He became a fundraiser for Barack Obama’s presidential campaign in 2008, and subsequently worked on Obama’s presidential transition team in the Office of Presidential Personnel. (Wikipedia) AND, After term ends, US Ambassador David Jacobson to join BMO: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/after-term-ends-u-s-ambassador-to-canada-david-jacobson-to-join-bmo-1.1290174).
Present US Ambassador to Canada is Bruce Heyman, said to be a top fundraiser for Obama.
U.S. President Barack Obama will nominate Chicago investment banker Bruce Heyman as his ambassador to Canada, the White House said Thursday. Known as a powerful fundraising force for the President, Heyman has been managing director of private wealth management at Goldman Sachs since 1999. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/obama-plans-to-pick-bruce-heyman-as-us-ambassador-to-canada/article14424868/
To those still “US”, you could try to correspond with Ambassador Heyman — better luck than I had.
The Mom,
I think our Canadian MPs, again, would tell us that since we are “US citizens who happen to reside in Canada” our concerns should be addressed to the USA. It would be good to make them aware of the fact this foot-dragging is going on though.
Pure insanity. Why can’t they do these in bulk? Have 50 people show up at once, raise their hands, etc, then process the damn papers. What a friggin’ joke. I am beyond relieved I got out when I did, massive delays would have me feeling utterly trapped and violated. I feel for you guys 🙁
Whether the delays are caused by an increase in numbers or by a reduction in the number of appointments, I hope this information can be used eventually for the Human Rights complaint. Personally I hope the numbers have increased, the US will be forced to address the situation if the numbers continue to skyrocket. The US is certainly making it harder and harder for people to renounce this citizenship.
I liked the story about Krackerjack121. Seems that Tijuana could have a small cottage industry doing renunciations. Nothing for 3 months prior to his visit on Sept 11. Its not too expensive to fly to SD then just take the trolly. I am also testing out my avatar (on my wordpress.com account). I was curious and looked at Calgary411 wordpress site. Mine is a picture my daughter drew when she was 7.
In spite of having my CLN, my nightmare continues.. learned of form 5471 today, never knew about this. Never filed it so on top of the 6yrs regular filings I did, I now need to do 6 years of these 5471, god only knows if I’ll be fined beyond belief for late filing them. I am trying to work with my expat tax person and NZ tax person. Maxing out multiple credit cards to get through all of this because I’m basically broke. Not to mention time lost in my work life that is trying to make ends meet in the first place. I’ll just do what I can. If they fine me there is nothing left to pay it. Truly, being born an American was the worst thing that ever happened to me.
pukekonz.. Re 5471. Why bother? They aren’t ever going to bother you. You will never hear from them.
@Duke of Devon I would basically have to file 6yrs as “self employed” and deal with what seems to be a self employment tax in spite of tax treaties, but if I file as an employee of my local biz this isn’t a problem. Unless someone has more advice or clarity not really sure what else I can do. Some may say just don’t file anything at all, take the CLN and hide away but my only concern is I may one day have to visit the US for a sick parent or relative etc. I’m trying to exit somewhat cleanly but they do not make it easy.
pukekonz. I repeat They aren’t ever going to contact you. They have much bigger issues to deal with.
Visiting the US won’t be an issue either. You have a CLN. You are entitled to travel to the states just as any other NZ citizen on your NZ passport. You could, if you feel you must, open up another giant can of worms. However there is no need.
@ Duke so are you saying file nothing? no 6yrs back, no 8854? anything? With FATCA rolling in can that stance still be considered safe? I feel that the IRS is likely to start outsourcing to 3rd parties overseas. For example PWC in NZ could have authority to go after expats and earn monies based on dobbing us in and taking a percentage of the “winnings”, etc. Sort of like sleazy collection agencies for the IRS operating overseas.
pukekonz. I may have misunderstood. You said “Never filed it so on top of the 6yrs regular filings I did,” I took this to mean you already filed 6 years of 1040s. If that is correct, the only thing left is 8854 which should be quite easy if you have few assets. I wouldn’t go back and change anything you have already filed.
@Duke, yeah other years not filed, nothing has been filed at this point. I am trying to avoid the self employment tax which traps me into having to file 5471 to avoid that. pretty screwed I think
Duke and Puke, just call the international IRS office in Philaped for any answers to where your stuff went into the black hole. Do not file anything else except 1040. IRS does not have time for anything. kermit
@Kermit nothing is in a black hole, it hasn’t been filed. Like mentioned, I have 6yrs of 1040’s to file and an 8854 but hit this whole ‘self employment’ issue which is taking me down the path of also having to file 6yrs of 5471’s I didn’t know about in order to get tax exempt credits.
pukekonz A very wise man once posted some very good advice here. “Don’t tell them anything they don’t already know” The only info they will know about your employer is what you choose to tell them. Take kermis advice about what to file. Keep it as simple as possible.