Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
@pacifica and others keeping tabs on appointment slots for renunciations and relinquishments. Have a look at the number of currently available slots in Calgary vs. Toronto for May, June and July. Big contrast.
From an email to Lagoon from the Calgary US Consulate. They book by email, different than the other Canadian consulates.
Thanks @calgary. Just alarmed a bit that Toronto had at one time 90 slots per month or so, and the recent numbers of slots available seem much more limited.
@ Rev Susi
I am dealing with the London embassy in the UK and have received my appointment date. As I understand it, they tell you when your appointment is so you should continue to correspond with them. I think they have mandatory “cooling off” periods that they use or at least that’s my interpretation of the gap in time between contacting them and between receiving my appointment date and the date of the appointment.
I sent them scans of everything they needed and requested an appointment. About 3 weeks later, they finally responded and told me they had another document for me to fill out. After submitting that, they gave me my appointment date with a 2 month wait. They’ve since pushed that date back a few days. I suspect they would have to offer more than one day a month. It’s more likely 2-3 afternoons per week.
@ Badger,
Toronto has peaked at 192 in some months. For quite a while, as recently as this winter, they were allotting 16 spaces a day, 3 or 4 days a week (3 or 4 weeks a month). June was probably 144 and I vaguely recall that May’s was low, but not alarmingly low, probably in the same range as June’s. I find July’s (48 spaces) alarmingly low. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I wish I knew the reason behind it
@Pacifica, just don’t want to see the flow of those successfully crossing the Jordan to be slowed down by lack of opportunity. Particularly with Canada Day coming up!
@ Edelweiss et al
I have today received an email from the Embassy in London giving me an appointment on June 11. So that’s 2 weeks from the day I submitted all my forms to them. I indicated in my cover letter that I had given this serious thought and that I did not need a telephone consultation before the actual renunciation appointment. So there appears to be a quicker process than any of us had expected. I will keep you posted on that. Thanks for your help and support!
@ Calgary411. Re Lagoon’s e-mail:
Seems to be an ongoing situation. Vancouver is not booking any appointments. They seem allot 2 bookings per day about 6 days a month — and I’m not sure they even book every month.
@ Badger,
Yeah, me too. I find it depressing.
Thanks for the update, Rev Susi. Glad the wheels of US renunciation are well lubricated for you.
@ Rev Susi,
That’s super! Glad to hear you’ll be wrapping it up so quickly! Thanks for keeping us posted.
Well, London are doing at least two days per month because my appointment is in June but not the 11th. Shame, would have been nice to see a fellow IBS poster in the waiting area particularly if the Rev is affiliated with a church that does not prohibit the consumption of alcoholic beverages.
@Petros
Sorry about that! I’m a card-carrying Anglican, ordained in Newfoundland, so with proper Canadian content too. When’s your appointment?
Not sure where to put this….
I emailed the Toronto consulate, regarding expected arrival time of my CLN. It has been 12 weeks since my renunciation. The response included:
“Due to a large number of renunciation applications we have received in
the past months, processing is taking longer than usual, in some cases,
it could take up to six months.”
Of course, no time period given to me.
Thanks for the info, The Mom. It is actually positive news as it indicates more US Persons Abroad are taking steps to free themselves from the US extra-territorial absurdities. “Due to a large number of renunciation applications we have received the the past months, processing is taking longer than usual; in some cases, it could take up to six months.” That is within a normal range of the longer periods it had taken previously for receipt of CLNs. I don’t think it is need for concern — other than the fact that it is darn nice when that CLN finally arrives and is actually in your hands!
Question: is it possible to log out of the tax system (form 8854, etc) without first receiving the CLN (assuming you have indeed renounced)?
@tdott
Form 8854 asks for your expatriation date and your final year tax returns consist of a 1040 covering Jan 1 to the day prior to expatriation and a 1040NR to the end of the year.
Somebody here was commenting that their final tax returns were due before they received the letter. I think they just filed with the interview date and hoped it would be ok. If it were me, I’d want to do that, but not take the risk. I’d file for an extension, which can take you to October of the year following the interview. I’d file the FBARs in a timely manner, though.
@Edelweiss et al
Well, today was the day. It’s over! But what a saga. I took the train into London, and found the left luggage office in the station, recommended by the Embassy, who warned me not to try to bring my phone or iPad in, or to arrive with those things because I couldn’t be admitted. Done. £9. But you need to have something to put things in. The guy manning the desk went off to look for a bag, and then decided that it would be best if I wrapped the things in bubble wrap, and provided the bubble wrap and tape (Fragile) to tape it all closed. He even cut the bubble wrap to an appropriate size and cut the tape for me. He was British. I set out for the Embassy, feeling oddly vulnerable without my electronic toys. Got to the Embassy early. You go through security outside, but first I had to wait until 1:55 for a 2:00 appointment. Then you line up at the curb and get called to the door one by one. The majority of folks were there for what I heard as ‘Iris’. I wondered what that was. A new programme? The penny finally dropped: IRS. They make similar appointments. Got to the door for my turn, and put my handbag, paperwork and car keys in the little plastic bins to be x-rayed. The guy took a horrified look at the keys and said. ‘You can’t come in here with those! You have to take them outside!’ He held up his hands as if to defend himself against my attack. The Attack of the Toxic Key Fob! I was at a loss what to do, when he regained the courage to tell me that the pharmacy down the street would allow me to check it in for £3. Ok, but I’ll be late, I said, will that matter? He checked his watch before saying it would be fine. As long as I was back before 2:30. I hotfooted it down the street to the pharmacy, where the (Pakistani?) staff had several alternate income streams. Lots of unusual products for weight loss and hair restoration, a real pharmacist where prescriptions could actually be dispensed, downstairs for appointments with a doctor (no appointment necessary), and two little tables set up with a plasticised picture list of proscribed articles which could be left for the afternoon. I held out the offensive keys, which were deposited in a plastic envelop, sealed, ticketed, and paid for. Then back to the bunker. I had to remove watch, jewelry, even my glasses, and go through the metal detector, which obstinately beeped each time. When I no longer had anything metal to remove and it still beeped, they called in someone to ‘wand’ me. That passed. It was either the underwire on my bra or the clips in my liver from an operation I had, they couldn’t say. They didn’t make me disrobe completely, at least. I was allowed into the compound where the only other people were men with machine guns (I guess that’s what you call them) and guns in holsters. More weapons than I’ve ever seen at one time in my life. Very scary. Up the stairs and into the building. It’s now 2:25. Only one other person in the waiting room. I was summoned to four different windows, first to give in the originals of the documents I had faxed, then to pay my $450, then to go back downstairs and pay my £14.80 for the mailer, then back to read the final typed documents and verify that it was all correctly spelled, and at last to see the Vice-Counsel in charge of renunciations, a nice young man who could’ve been my son. He was seated with a large American flag at his left shoulder, with, I noticed, impressive gold fringe. He made sure I had read the documents (another signature), and then pushed the final paper through the window. ‘Now’, he said, ‘I am required by law to ask you to look at the American flag, raise your right hand, and when you are ready, read the oath printed there in italics, loudly enough that I can hear you’. Fortunately English is my native language and I read formal texts in public as my profession. I got through the ‘Article (45) (a)’ or whatever of the code, and managed the ‘pertaining thereunto’ without stumbling, and he announced that that was all there was to it. He gave me back my British passport and a piece of paper (another signature) to say I had done the deed, told me the final letter would be sent between 8-10 weeks from now, and wished me a pleasant afternoon. I walked free at 2:45, a little the worse for wear. I remembered to get my car keys, went back to the train station and liberated my electronic gear, phoned home, and caught the next train. Everyone had been pleasant, everyone in the Security Team was foreign, and everyone behind the bullet-proof glass windows was American. Nobody asked me anything about what I was doing or why, or was I sure. Nobody trained a gun on me. But they might as well have. When it comes to utter intimidation, nobody does it better. Three weeks since I emailed asking for the appointment. If on schedule, three months start to finish. Taxes and FBAR next Jan., and I’m done. I wrote this all down because I’ll see the funny side in a couple of days, and here’s the record. Not funny when it was happening, though. But compared to the IRS, or the Treasury Dept, a piece of cake. And now that the Prism story has broken, who knows what’s coming? But take heart: you can break free. Thanks to the supportive group here for your encouragement.
Congratulations, Rev Susi! Thank you for your detailed report, which will be useful to others in the UK — it’s a fun one to read too 🙂
Thanks for the report of your renunciation appointment in London, Rev Susi. The things memories are made of. You will find the humour in it eventually.
And, you’re very correct — all a piece of cake VS year after year after year of lost LCU’s, lost savings for administration of compliance, lost freedom in the countries in which we live. Yours will be a short period of enduring what has to be endured to regain your life. Sincere congratulations!
Dear Rev Susi. thanks so much for your post, gives me courage as I gear up the paperwork around my own renunciation (did heartache thing in recent past with UK hubby re: divorce v. my American passport ….fortunately his love allowed me to renounce before sacrificing my marriage)………. currently planning to query my ISP if they have their servers in USA….. god bless for your courageous detailed post which will hopefully give so many people the courage to carry on their journey away from the USG classic abusive relationship which marks the (current but diminishing) number of USPs abroad…………..when the US “gibber/giver/government” calls for their diaspora to repair global relations…………..gee……..guess what!!! there might not be anyone left,. Dear NSA. if ur reading this email……..
I love USA and I would wholeheartedly support any initiatives towards Residence Based Taxation to raise USG prestige and attempt to restore global economic level ground on which US could compete on all its justly touted strengths.
bring to mind: We must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang separately……………….
I find it very difficult to understand especially after Sophie int Veld’s recent statements in EU parliament re: FATCA ……….. why should I trust my EU family’s economic future to Obamanation. I work in UK, earn in UK, pay taxes in UK. my 3x post grad degrees, mortgage and its payoff, pension investments, etc etc and 28 years of work were in UK and yet USG demand I should file 60 page return costing £5K +VAT to prepare to tell USG I dont owe them anything??????? US will find very broad principle support to catch HOMELAND WHALES but I tell u for free that the 6 million minnows are the collaterable damage that will do the LT sinking.
God Bless America………….the idea.
@Rev Susi
Congrats on your renunciation! Yours was remarkably quick. I waited nearly 3 weeks for a response to my email and nearly a further 2 months for my appointment.
I can identify with many of your observations, particularly the armed police. I walked past at least 3 pairs of machine gun toting British police and various other armed British police patrolling the interior and exterior of the perimeter. This in a country where almost all police officers are unarmed (at least not with a gun).
@crystal london, you are exactly right. While US legislators and the IRS may think in terms of whales and minnows, they seem to forget that all US citizens abroad are actually people. The ill will that US tax policies create is proportional to the numbers of people who are negatively affected, not to their individual wealth. In fact, the less wealthy a US expatriate is, the more onerous is the cost of filing all the paperwork to establish that they don’t owe the US any tax.
@AnonAnon, absolutely. I strongly believe that an member of the diaspora tax should not have to spend a penny on filing if it is to be justified. Spending $300+ to prove no tax due is unacceptable.