Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
Lots of CLNs received — congratulations, northernstar. Congratulations all!
@jennifer & northernstar, congratulations to you both.
Wow. If I’m not mistaken, it’s taking much longer to get CLNs than last year in Canada. Last spring it took only three months for me to get from renunciation appointment to CLN in the mailbox.
“You might not worry so much about the FBAR filing, if you look at Phil Hodgen’s advice. FATCA form, maybe required, as it is part of your tax filings, but FBAR is not an IRS form, so why bother now..?”
IRS may not accept interpratation
“The legislation mandates only compliance with all requirements under title 26 of the US Code (that is, the IRC). The FBAR requirement is in title 31. Consequently, the failure to file FBARs should not prevent certification of compliance.
Discussions with the IRS indicate that, in its view, FBAR filing is required. However, this position is not consistent with the law.
Failure to file an FBAR may not mean failure to meet test 3; however, there are independent penalties for failure to file the form. What is likely is that the IRS will target expatriates for review of FBAR filing, and application of those penalties in cases of non-compliance.
There is a statute of limitations for FBAR filing (unlike the filing of tax returns), which applies even if the form is not filed. The assessment period is six years for civil penalties and five years for criminal penalties.86”
Expatriation: The American’s Tax Experience in Canada page 19
If you do not plan on crossing the border
For a lot of long term Canada the easiest thing may be to
Kevyn Nightingale and David Turchen* page 19
For people who do not plan to cross bordewr.
Long term Canadian may consider doing this instead of CLN. I imagine a CLN will get you on the USA Tax radar. You may not get a USA offical willing to back date.
“Does the agreement require Canadian financial institutions to report to the CRA on any individuals who were told that they relinquished their U.S. citizenship when they became Canadian citizens?
The agreement does not require Canadian financial institutions to report on any individuals who have relinquished their U.S. citizenship and are not residents of the U.S. ”
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/ndvdls-eng.html
If you CLN you may may not have to do all the exit taxes, if you do not plan to cross border. The European (include Japan, Mexiso and some others) FATCA requires you to be tax compliant. Some of these countries may have changed their rule if have a provision to get the best FATCA agreement
“Does the agreement require Canadian financial institutions to report to the CRA on any individuals who were told that they relinquished their U.S. citizenship when they became Canadian citizens?
The agreement does not require Canadian financial institutions to report on any individuals who have relinquished their U.S. citizenship and are not residents of the U.S. ‘
Congratulations Northernstar, Jennifer and Saddened123! I can imagine how relieved you all must feel!
@Northernstar, thank you for staying on the bus with those of us destined to ride this out to the bitter end. You have no idea how comforting it is to know there are people like you out there fighting the good fight with us.
Woohoo – it took 8 months but.my.CLN has finally arrived!
nomad33 — our congratulations. Your long wait is over! I hope a celebration is in order.
congrats nomad! Are you already up to date on filings or will you start that process now?
@nomad33, Congratulation!!!!!!!!!
Super news, Nomad! It was a long wait. Congratulations!
More CLN tickets to freedom! Great and congratulations to all expats who have gotten rid of the cancer of US citizenship.
Freedom from the USSA and all the Carl Levins and Chuck Schumers who have made it what it is for expats.
Congratulations Nomad33 getting your CLN.. I know how happy you must be
Hoorah, another one. Congrats nomad33!
Thank you all for your support! I am so relieved – my CLN is dated 1982. I’m finished, Woohoo!
@ Nomad33
Woohoo indeed! It’s like having piece of pure platinum in your hand when you get a back-dated CLN. Congratulations to you.
@saddened
I went into Toronto late August and just got it – you would think that means your next. Fingers crossed:)
@maple leaves
They honoured my renunciation and I was under 18 when I became Canadian but I took the classes and declared allegiance to the queen myself, my mother didn’t do it for me. They may accept it but chances are they won’t if your friend didn’t take the oath him/herself. They were very persistent on this point with me, asking me about 5 times if I was sure I took the oath and the classes and comparing US law and so forth.
Wow nomad33, even better news if you don’t need to do the tax thing. Great result!
Hi Nomad33 – congratulations. Are your details posted on IBS already? I was unable to find them. I had a relinquishment meeting last month in Calgary. They would not accept my taking the Canadian citizenship oath in 1979 (as a minor and of my own action) as a past relinquishing act (even though the INA at the time provisioned for it). It appears that you asked for recognition of a past renounciation act as a minor, would you mind sharing your details?
Thank you.
-Geri
This could be the wrong thread, but its the closest to my question. With 5 years of returns in hand now, I’m finally starting the renouncing process with Toronto Consulate. I’m trying to figure out how to do this, as they don’t make it obvious on their site. Do I schedule an appointment with their online calendar, and if so, is renouncing considered “Request notarial and other services not listed above” on their calendar? Does one typically file the returns before the visit or does it really matter?
@GwEvil, we spoke at the Richmond Hill meeting, thanks again for your help!
@ frank
I can only tell you the procedure at the Calgary consulate is to e-mail them, tell them you wish to renounce and then they send you the forms they want to filled out ahead of time and give you an appointment date (be prepared to wait awhile for that). Your tax forms are of no concern to the consulate. You can send them after your appointment if you wish. Your 8854 form will be filed next year along with your final tax filing.
Thanks @Em.
Ok, this makes more sense now, so they schedule the appointment (and the online one is of no use for renouncing). It also seems they require the DS4079 and some other questionnaire attached to the appointment request email….is this also inline with the process at Calgary? I suppose I’m concerned with filling out forms and sending it to them before my visit, but I guess it is what it is.
Anyone know what the current waiting list is like in Toronto?
thanks.
@ frank
You shouldn’t be too concerned about e-mailing the forms/questionnaires to the consulate because you don’t sign them and they will go over everything with you before you do sign them in person. It just helps to make things go swiftly and smoothly at your appointment. I can’t remember if someone has mentioned the current wait time in Toronto but it’s about 4 months in Calgary and BC Doc said the Vancouver consulate admitted to being swamped.
@Frank, There are appointments available June 10th.
Hi again Nomad33 – I found your Consular visit report with the description of your visit. I am still looking for your details with regards the specifics. I am one of many Canadians who was born in the US and naturalized as a minor in Canada. Myself and others have been informed at our consular appointments that we will not be able to relinquish based on the fact we were minors when we took our oath to Canada (without parental involvement). I am very interested to know more of your details to see how our situations line up. Would you be willing to share the following? either on IBS or by personal email?
– Where were you born?
– What nationality were your parents?
– When did you move to Canada?
– When did you naturalize as a Canadian?
– At what age?
– Which INA Relinquishment Act did you make your claim under at the Consulate?
– Did the Consulate indicate they were sending your application to DC with a recommendation to approve?
Thank you and very much.
-Geri
Somehow I missed seeing this thread, both parts 1 and 2. Lot of reading to catch up on…