Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
Clarification please RE http://maplesandbox.ca/fatca-handouts/
One of the new FATCA Handouts from the Maple Sandbox says that [if an IGA is not signed – – and presumably, if at the same time there was no IGA,that the FFI did not sign] FATCA will impose 30% withholding of US sourced income to financial institutions…..
My understanding had been that the draconian ‘stick” was that the US would be withholding 30% of ANY TRANSACTION THAT WENT THROUGH – – that is, was processed through – – THE US BANKING SYSTEM, not just “US INCOME”.
Anyone have a link to the exact words of warning to FATCA non-compliant FFIs?
My friend was born in the US and moved to Canada in 1970 at age 10. His parents took out Canadian citizenship for the whole family in 1972. He has a Canadian citizenship card from 1972.He has lived in Canada ever since with no ties to the US at all , never had a US passport, SSN, and never lived there again after age 10.
He was hoping to apply for a backdated CLN.
Is anyone here is this situation? I think I recall reading that a person is not eligible for CLN based on relinquishment if they became a Canadian citizen before age 18. is renouncing the only option?
Thanks for your help. Moderators, it is ok to pass on my email to anyone who can provide information.
@maple leaves
Direct him to read my comments on the renunciation and relinquishment thread and on the Consulate Report.
you should review the Renunciation and Relinquishment thread…
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/
This situation is somewhat similar to mine
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/
Prior to 1986, his naturalization would have been considered a relinquishment…However, I tried to argue this point…I suggest he read all my postings since July 2013
(Sounds like he would have also been 25 in 1985 prior to the 1986 change )
@ Maple Leaves,
Two possibilities for relinquishment, other than by naturalising with intent to relinquish, would be performing either of these potentially relinquishing acts with the intent to relinquish.
s. 349(a) Immigration and Nationality Act
Here’s a link to the Consulate Report Directory. Benedict Arnold’s report is on pages 17-18.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Consulate-Report-Directory-2013.01.25.pdf
Benedict Arnold be me, and Pacifica 777, thank you for the fast reply. @benedict he has worked for at least 20 years as a social worker, so based on your story, and someone else who posted that their job at a hospital counted as government work, he might be able to relinquish based on 4a above. Will pass this information along.
I was lucky and inadvertently got a CLN when I returned my US passport to the consulate in 1980 after I became Canadian . It was pure luck and naïveté, I thought that since I had no reason to keep it I would return it.
Thank you for your help.
I want to thank you all for the support,and rich information given here.There’s the tax issues(2014) I will still need to finish,and the dilemma of renouncing,when,where,how,if which I’ve dealt with.I had made an appointment at the Embassy in Tel Aviv for renouncing in Nov.2013.I hadn’t yet filed my first batch of taxes(sent off Dec.2013)(I never knew about citizen-based taxation).Sitting,waiting for the Consul to call me up,my gut told me:not yet,finish the tax issues first.The Consul also agreed that I return when I’m ready.My 2nd appointment was Jan.2014.I was called up soon after entering the waiting room to pay the 450$,then go on to the Consul’s window,asked the probably usual questions,gave my oath,signed the relevant documents,etc.The Consul was friendly.His assistant(secretary)had been very helpful in arranging all appointments on short notice,since I was going abroad in Nov.and returned specially for the 2nd appointment).I asked the Consul if he knew how long it could take to get the CLN and was told ca.1 month(which positively surprised me because I’ve read here from others in other countries that it takes much longer).I returned to Israel this week(Feb.2014),emailed the Embassy asking if the Documents had arrived.I could pick them up and am now relieved to have received a CLN.(a copy of which I already sent to my bank so they would not throw me out)And sad that we USCitizensAbroad have no choice than to renounce.I want to repeat:I was treated very courteously,very respectfully at the Embassy. During the questioning before the oath:I was asked if I was renouncing for tax reasons.I think I answered no.But rather for the existential reason that Banks are throwing US persons out and no other banks will take us.And that the only way to survive abroad is by no longer being a US-Person. Can it be that the US Consul is not aware what is happening to US people abroad?Not aware that the USA is(except Eritrea)the only country with citizen-based-taxation and the Fatca issue etc? By his facial expression I had that feeling.
@JN
Congratulations! You sound very relieved – thank you for sharing your experience at the Embassy at Tel Aviv. You better believe that the Consul is aware of why people are renouncing otherwise he wouldn’t ask if you’re renouncing for tax reasons. You were treated with courtesy up until this moment – because he had no business asking you this and enticing you into incriminating yourself. Renouncing for tax reasons has the potential to bar you from entering the US due to the Reed Amendment.
My American wife became a Canadian citizen about 5 years ago. Does this mean she has relinquished her American citizenship?
Peter,
If that was her intent she should be able to claim her relinquishment by becoming a Canadian citizen — and, further, she has done nothing like travel a US passport (unless bullied into it some way), vote in a US election, etc.
@Peter
Note that in order for your wife to cleanly exit the US tax system, she needs to have her relinquishment accepted and documented and, among other things, certify that she’s up to date with the previous 5 years of tax obligations (and that’s w.r.t. the day she gets the relinquishment documented, not when she became a citizen). That’s the condensed version.
Hi,
How do you search for all the posts of one person?
@Benedict Arnold be me suggested reading his posts related to relinquishing.
Thanks
@globalcitizen
I contributed to this Conference call:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/11/01/financial-sense-roundtable-expatriate-roundtable-has-the-government-alienated-americans-living-abroad-by-criminalizing-the-innocent/
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/09/13/media-opportunity-recruiting-panelists-for-fsn-round-table/
I started posting June 18th on this other thread:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/comment-page-22/#comments
I hope it helps to bring you up to speed…
Also look at the Consulate Report:
Here’s a link to the Consulate Report Directory. Benedict Arnold’s report is on pages 17-18.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Consulate-Report-Directory-2013.01.25.pdf
globalcitizen,
It’s almost impossible to search for all the “comments” of one person (vs. posts, which would be in the Archives at the top of the page). I believe if you start at “Benedict Arnold be me” comments and read through to newer discussion going on with “WhatAmI” you will be reading what Benedict suggests.
Start here: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/comment-page-25/#comment-407826
Let me know if you need further help finding something from “oh, so many comments”.
(And, I see Benedict Arnold be me has beat me to responding to your request, just above.)
It isn’t completely reliable but often you can do a browser search — NAME says + isaacbrocksociety.ca — to find comments by individual Brockers.
Thank you all for the links and tips. Have caught up on the posts.
Google search:
site:isaacbrocksociety.ca “[name of user here]”
@ Wren
I just did that and was kind of creeped out by the number of results for “Em”. My only hope is that CSEC and NSA will be overwhelmed by volume — not that their databanks will be though. 🙁
Please consider using a non-US search engine, i.e. not Google. Don’t feed the beast! 😉
Private search engines:
https://www.startpage.com/
https://duckduckgo.com/
For private email you will likely have to pay a monthly fee,.
e.g. http://www.mykolab.com
@ grouchyandmad
I’m a StartPage searcher. Mr. Em likes duckduckgo. From the StartPage crew there will soon be a secure e-mail called StartMail and if I’m recalling this right Katherine Albrecht said this is headquartered in the Netherlands. Katherine has been a champion of privacy from way back when she first became concerned about “loyalty cards”. My first incursion into the “resistance” was because of “loyalty cards”. FATCA goes right off the scale on my privacy alert meter.
@Em
Cool, I use https://www.ixquick.com, which also belongs to StartPage. And yes, they’re based in the Netherlands.
I renounced my US citizenship in the early 70’s. At the time, my fellow ex-pats called my action foolish and impulsive. I was told that I was denying myself any chance of future work in the USA, or whatever imagined benefit of US citizenship. Yet, I can find no joy in gloating that I ain’t looking so foolish now!.
This FATCA is so Draconian and heinous in its indiscriminate cast wide net of incidental or accidental “US persons” that I have been spreading the word to anyone who’ll listen. I’ve even been warning non-Americans that if they have so-called US indicators in their financial dealings, they may have to justify their banking information not being passed to the IRS.
Good luck on your cause.
@Once an American….. You were ahead of your times. No, you are not looking foolish now! 🙂
@All waiting for CLN, I relinquished my US Citizenship in Sept. in Toronto, and have NOT yet received it. So my accountant just called the Dept.of State and it has not be processed yet! They told her that it would be processed in the near future! So I will have to hold off sending in my returns, she extended the deadline to October. I just wanted to let anyone know that was in Toronto in Sept. it probably will be a little longer wait.
I don’t know when they say near future, does that mean in 1 month, 2 months etc. Who Knows!!
Thanks for the update on your situation, saddened.
Who knows? But, it can’t have hurt to have specifically asked about YOUR CLN. In the past, there seem to have been timely miracles after such an inquiry. Fingers crossed for you getting yours very soon!