Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
Thanks, pacific. Very interesting — especially that 185 countries part. Brock has reached potential CBT victims in pretty much all of the countries the FATCA-monster is “negotiating” its insidious IGAs.
…and, Pacifica, that comment count is since we moved to the .ca site, n’est pas?
Right now count shows: 68,892 comments (20 per page for 3,445 pages of comments) submitted to this site. (Just think of the amount of spam we’ve deleted to show those comments!)
@ King of the Road,
Something like that would be interesting to see. Petros might know about it.
@Calgary,
I got a total displayed which seems to combine comments from both websites, the first (.com – 2011-12) and the second (.ca) (2012-present). The first comment occurred at 3.56 pm on December 12th, 2011. I have my interface (or whatever it’s called) set up to show 100 per page, so I’m getting 689 pages with 100 per page.
Thanks, Pacifica. I wonder who made that first historic comment.
Bet you can guess! Well, maybe the answer’s not obvious, but, being historic, it is appropriate 🙂
Thanks, Petros!!!
Petros — that thanks is from all of us!
Petros,Thanks from the bottom of our heart!!
Pacifica777 says: We started in December (12th I think) 2011.
Demonstrably not true. The Brock data morass compounds and cascades. The earliest material appears not to be recoverable at this point.
This posting dated 11 Dec 2011 can still be viewed in the current incarnation of Brock:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/11/we-shall-fight-on-the-beaches-open-thread/
The statement that follows was carefully verified at the time it was recorded in January 2012, and can be trusted more than any guess or fuzzy recollection:
2011 Dec 10 – First posting appears on the blog/forum of the Isaac Brock Society
Source: http://usxcanada.wordpress.com/timeline/
Wow! I knew there was a lot of activity from a lot if people since I found you about a year ago, but I had no idea! In that time, I’ve successfully renounced, got the letter to prove it and a British passport, and I’ve had enough advice to enable me to file my final tax returns etc without too much difficulty. I’m using a firm in Idaho who work with a lot of Canadians and are very reasonable, I’d recommend them. Whether we can stop FATCA remains to be seen, so I continue to keep up with you all. Thanks to everybody!
@Rev: I have the ordeal to file in 2015 and not sure yet if I can do it alone (I already have a CPA helping me with the 1040 and other 205 forms..).. Any chance you can give us the refenrcne of this Company? Lawyer or CPA or both?
I’m wondering if anyone has any experiences with relinquishing their US Citizenship and they got their citizenship before they were 18 years old? I was 16 and am concerned that they will not think this action was voluntary or I had the capacity. My parents clearly explained to me what it meant. And until recently, I had no idea I was still American (a USA guard told me I was american and had to get a passport). I also don’t have a copy of the oath that I supposedly signed at the time of my citizenship (1999). Will I need this?
I became a Canadian citizen in 1999, but lived here since 1986 (born in 1983). I have no US passport, have never worked there, have never voted, and have never filed taxes to IRS. I have a few american family members that I have had little to no contact with. I am married to a Canadian, we own a Canadian home and we have a 10 month old son. I think I may have been a public employee at one point as a social worker before the hospital privatized. So really I cannot think of any other reason I would be rejected accept that I committed my expatriating act before the age of 18??
I have emailed the consulate and hoping to hear back soon. Not sure if there is a number I can call or just sit back and wait?
@ Relinquishing,
A relinquishing act before age 18 doesn’t look promising to me. Perhaps someone can prove me wrong – I’d welcome it.
Relinquishing by naturalising in a foreign country is INA, s. 349(a)(1). The Dept of State manual says,
Does anyone have personal experience with relinquishment based on an act performed before age 18 – or can point to law/DoS policy statement allowing this? It would be really helpful.
Regarding hospital work, Prairie Girl got her relinquishment CLN based on her employment as an administrative secretary at a hospital (s. (4)). These are links to her post on it.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/relinquishment/comment-page-21/#comment-797678
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/12/relinquish-dont-renounce-if-you-can/comment-page-9/#comment-990347
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/12/relinquish-dont-renounce-if-you-can/comment-page-9/#comment-990561
Also, if you were a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the military that could be a possibility under s. (3).
@Pacifica777
I worked for CN Rail when it was owned by the Canadian government. Would I be considered as taking an oath to the government when I worked there?
@jg151. I’m not sure if the board allows me to post the details of my tax firm, or if they would want to handle very complex filings. However, I’ll post if I have permission. Otherwise I can respond to an email.
@pacifica777
Service in the military at any level (however brief or junior) will involve an oath which will automatically be the basis for a 349(a)(2) relinquishment, as long as the recruit enlisted at 18 or over.
@Broken Man,
I hadn’t thought of that — thanks for adding it!
@ Northern Star,
Re: @Pacifica777
I worked for CN Rail when it was owned by the Canadian government. Would I be considered as taking an oath to the government when I worked there?
Sorry, I don’t know. It would seem logically so, or working for the government, s (4) — but I really don’t know.
As everyone searches around madly for slivers of proof that they are exactly what they have known themselves to be for many years (i.e. no longer American), doesn’t anyone ever get to the point where they just want to say to the USA: TAKE A HIKE! You are dead wrong to impose your laws in my country in order to steal my savings and control my life, so I will not comply with your demands. I accept, under protest, that I may not be able to have a bank account anymore but I will find a workaround. I vow that I will never go to the USA again but I will happily take my vacations in Canada and other non-US countries. I will arrange to meet my US friends and relatives somewhere outside the USA in order to visit with them.
You know what the USA is doing is wrong, so why do you feel you must twist yourselves into little form-flogged pretzels to comply with it? Won’t that merely validate the actions of the US tyrant and spur it on to ever more acts of hegemony and even more diabolical deeds? Enough is enough … eventually … isn’t it? End of rant.
@Pacifica777
So if what you say holds true, I would have to renounce. Does this mean I should get my taxes in order or just wait until I meet with consulate? I’m so scared of the IRS and all of this is so confusing.
Does anyone know how to get ahold of anyone by PHONE for these issues? Like speak to a US consulate on phone. Or would it be better to call a lawyer?
@Em of course we do. But sit down and think about it. Can you really run your life without a bank account or something similar these days? Bills are paid by direct debit, credit card, cheque or cash so how are you going to do that with only the last choice. How are you going to receive your salary? No cash paid or cheques handed out for that, it has to go into a bank account, credit union, etc. Pension payments, rental income, etc, all paid into a account more often than not.
I can happily live without going back to the States, but the threat of having our accounts closed if we don’t sign this form or that wasn’t something I wanted to risk. The way the bill paying system is set up here in Switzerland you either pay cash or you send a slip from the invoice to your bank and they pay it out of your account. There is no other way to do it. And a salary account is a must for receiving your monthly paycheck, it can’t be done any other way. I seriously doubt anyone could live here without a bank account.
@Very Confused.
Don’t panic, don’t rush. I called a tax consultant when I first heard of FATCA. I was told doing the back income taxes would cost the very minimum $1000 per tax year. These people Love FATCA. It makes them money. One guy told me he would charge $900 per hour for phone call.
As long as you stay out of the USA you can wait. FATCA is not even agreed to yet with between Canada and the USA. Let us see what happens.
Stay on Brock, read the recent comments and go and read the older ones. It does not cost a thing.
Go to the information meeting this Saturday if you are in the Toronto area . If not check to see where the next one is the nearest city to you .
Do not panic. No instant decision is needed.
@Em
What makes it all the more infuriating is that ANY choice we make will have its cost!
@MedeaFleecestealer
You are right. that is what I am concerned with . my bank account.
I am sure in the very near future it will be getting more interesting. Right now the new members are highly scared. I don’t blame them. It is good the Information sessions are happening.
Can there be a quick way to see these sessions and their dates on the side bar…at least a line to click on to see them.
northernstar,
The information sessions post and the locations and dates are right at the top of the Isaac Brock home page. I don’t think being somewhere in all the information on a sidebar would be better than that. isaacbrocksociety.ca — there it is right at the top and that is where it will remain until the information about the information sessions is stale news.
No?
VeryConfused,
northernstar has given you good advice. Canada’s Parliament goes back into session January 27th; one of the first orders of business should be to answer questions about FATCA, if they can leave the drama of the Senate and get down to the business of running this country.
I’m waiting for the Answers to all of Q121 (MP Ted Hsu and Q127 (MP Scott Brison). Canadian Parliament FATCA Questions 121 and 127 – Oct 25,28 2013
In the meantime, read — starting with the resources on the right-hand side of the Isaac Brock home page.