Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
Thank you for being so helpful. I do have my military records in part and if need be will obtain a copy. Originally in 1986 I was a Private. In 2000 – 2006 Cpl. I am under the assumption Non Commissioned member was anything other than Commissioned. Simplified explanation to be sure. I just discovered this article two hours ago and I feel quite stressed with the implications. I live in Kingston, ON where would be the closest Consular if you would know. Thanks.
I should also mention prior to joining the military in 1986, I worked for Toronto Police Services and also signed a Oath to Protect and Serve. Would this also qualify similarly as the military
Probably Ottawa.
Anyway, some Googling shows a mistake I made upthread: corporals count as NCOs. So actually you could use three different sections of the INA: 349(a)(1), 349(a)(2) and 349(a)(3)(b).
Yes, I also queried above about my service in the Toronto Police. Does that have relevance.I have located the Ottawa Embassy Consular for the US. Thank you for all your help.
@ worried
First, try not to get too stressed. It really does look good for your ability to get a back-dated CLN. (See you already know one of the acronyms.) You still have to do the consulate visit but read some more here and you’ll find a way to get through that fairly easily. Next, try to get it clear in your head that you would not be renouncing (that requires an oath and $450), you would be merely asking them to acknowledge your act of relinquishment with an official document (CLN). That CLN will be what you hand the bank when they spot somehow that you were born in the USA. It tells them to bug off. We have a special section here which relates stories of consulate visits.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/
It is admirable this site and the advocacy that is occurring. Thank you. I will put all my evidence together before attending in Ottawa to as you indicate not to renounce but to acknowledge my relinquishment for the purpose of the CLN. I will now read the thread you provided. Bravo Zulu as we say in the military!
@ worried
Most people have found the Toronto consulate to be friendlier than the Ottawa embassy, although I do believe things have improved in Ottawa lately.
Can someone advise if I need to make an appointment at the Ottawa Consular Embassy of US or can I go and start the process. I am not renouncing as I have by order of joining the Canadian Forces in 1986, I am requesting confirmation of the renouncement and the CLN document. Thanks.
Can anyone provide a list of records I should have on hand besides military records, Canadian passport, birth certificate, etc….
@Parts_Unknown, then he should be able to apply for relinquishment backdated to 2009. However, this won’t absolve him from needing to file back taxes unfortunately. The RESP may need to be reported if your partner has signatory rights to it, but hopefully someone based in Canada can confirm or deny that. I’m based in Switzerland so am not up on Canadian reporting requirements.
@worried, you need to make an appointment at the embassy/consulate to relinquish or renounce, you can’t just walk in and do it. So contact them as per their instructions on their website; some do it by phone, others by e-mail. You’ll need to fill in this form too:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
The embassy/consulate will tell you exactly what documents you need to bring with you, but it will be things like your American birth certificate, military records/oath, Canadian citizenship document/passport, etc; basically anything that proves you’re American and have since committed a relinquishing act.
thank you so much. I am requesting documents as we speak. I can not thank you enough.
Have just met with the Consulate in Halifax to renounce citizenship on January 15, after a number of prompt replies to emails and exchange of information as to what was required concerning documentation. I am a dual citizen by virtue of birth, and have no other way out of FATCA except to renounce. I have been told it will be 1-3 months for response, but that they were recommending approval of my renunciation, and there seemed to be no concern. The appointment only took 20 minutes (because I had all the exact paperwork required), and they were very nice. Hoping the rest of this process will be as positive, but who knows what the IRS will do.
@Worried, no worries (whoops). Just stay calm and take your time to sort things out. You seem to have a very good case for relinquishment and the process is really very easy.
@Lisa Pottie, congratulations! Another one who’s now an ex. Have you done any filing of tax forms at all?
I worry about my brother as he was born just after me and has no military or police allegiance or employment to. So many people under duress is awful.
@MedeaFleecestealer, no, I have never done any filings. I had no idea I had to, in fact,since I have paid tax in Canada all my life, and never lived or worked in US (my parents are Canadians who lived for a few years in the US, and left when I was 2 years old). I can’t afford fees to consult with tax specialists or indeed anyone to do filings for me. Crash course in US tax law coming up I guess.
@worried –
If he’s a naturalized Canadian, and hasn’t done anything since then to assert US nationality, then he should be good to go as well. You have three, or possibly four different redundant expatriating acts, but really one will do.
@Worried, as Broken Man says, if your brother has also gained Canadian citizenship then he can relinquish as well and if it was done far enough back won’t need to file any US tax returns.
In speaking with some Canadian Veteran friends of mine one called the Embassy and was told that taking an Oath of Allegiance and serving in the Canadian Armed Forces (1986-87) and (2000-2006)
does not automatically evoke American citizenship. Reason being is that we are considered an Ally. I wonder about this. Again, parents were British subject, Canadian citizen. I never obtained a US passport, never lived in US only during ages 1-4, never voted, never rented or bought property, no US investments. I obtained my Canadian citizenship when I turned 18 and had a swearing in ceremony. I worked for Toronto Police, York Regional Police and the Armed Forces Canada. I cant understand why I would be considered a dual according to what the Embassy said to friend. Any thoughts.
@Worried…
Just a simplistic thought, but aren’t Canadian forces considered Government employees?
“•If you left Canada and you are a government employee outside Canada, which includes members of the Canadian Forces posted abroad, you are usually considered a factual resident or a deemed resident of Canada.”
@worried, it depends upon the treaty between the two nations. Depending upon the treaty, one can serve in both nations without such being a problem.
Simply stated, yes we are employees of the Canadian Government and when abroad are considered as such. Good point. Thanks
@worried –
Military service in an allied army isn’t automatically expatriating, no.
But it can be expatriating:
– from your point of view, if you want it to be
– from the State Department’s point of view, if you said you intended it to be expatriating, and your subsequent conduct isn’t incompatible with that.
Thanks for that clarification. Based on the military allied point of view between Canada and US, my subsequent actions have all inclusively and conclusively shown I viewed myself as a Canadian et al for the above mentioned reasons notwithstanding I obtained my Canadian citizenship at age 18 for the purpose of joining the military .
@ Worried,
Re:
The “or” between 3 (A) and (B) certainly implies one or the other criteria must be met – not that I know how DoS interprets this.
However, I’m a little sceptical of ACS Ottawa because in 2011-12 they were quite hostile towards renunciation and relinquishment, and were actively trying very hard to prevent relinquishments in 2011-12 (at least I’m aware of a couple of cases of that — I’m one of them.).
I realise that beginning early 2013, they apparently quit the shenanigans, revised their “customer service,” and I’m aware of a relinquishment they processed in 2013, smoothly, without causing any problems at all, and the person was quite pleased with his meeting there.
People (and institutions) can and do change. But they had a pretty bad track record. If it were me, I’d try bouncing that question off a different consulate or contacting ACS Legal Affairs in DC. Sometimes in life you get an answer you don’t like, but that’s for sure what the answer is. It would be a shame to make a life choice based on inaccurate information. Not saying they got incorrect information, or that Ottawa ACS in 2014 would have provided incorrect information – just that I’m still a bit leery of them.
Wise thoughts, I will contact ACS Legal Affairs in DC directly. Any contact info if available at hand would be great if not I will seek it out…cheers.
@worried
http://canada.ca/en/gov/dept/index.html
look down to Canadian Army….