Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
@badger, he used a picture of a passport similar to the picture of mine that I posted on IBS. 🙂 A coincidence?
Do you have to report future US Social Security income on form 8854? If yes, how do you calculate net present value?
It’s not possible to calculate.
@Kalc: Then not include!
jgl51: Rather than write a lot of new definitions for the exit tax, the IRS decided to rely mostly on existing estate tax definitions and rules. Social security and similar are not included as assets for estate tax purposes. Therefore, they are also not included for exit tax purposes.
This was discussed around one year ago in an IBS thread.
@Innocente: Thanks. Will look at the thread as it may answer other practical questions.
jgl51:
Here are two tax articles that might be useful:
http://www.step.org/advising-us-citizens-and-long-term-residents-expatriating
http://www.hklaw.com/files/Publication/454a4da6-d692-41b8-b9dd-367f9f8846c3/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/edb41a72-92bb-419c-bf9a-3de0351be763/Packman-March2010.pdf
Thanks Just Me, Whitekat, and all for moving my post/s to better places. I’m starting to lose track somewhat of where things are/should be. And to keep up with all the good articles in the last few days. Allison Christians has also issued several good blog entries, which northernstar has been keeping us apprised of, and which could be highlighted.
This is what a blank CLN looks like (sorry, don’t know whether it’s been posted before):
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81609.pdf
Toying with the Idea of Renouncing My U. S. Citizenship
Question for all, particularly those with knowledge.
My partner was born in the US to one American parent, one Canadian parent.
My partner lived there for 3 months as an infant, then moved to Canada with the Canadian parent.
My partner has NEVER lived in the US after that. My partner has never so much as sold a glass of lemonade in the US.
Does anyone know if my partner will have to pay taxes and, more specifically, what about me and our kids ?
My partner is considering renouncing. I read something about it being a relatively simple process if one serves a foreign government. My partner is employed by the government of Canada. Does anyone know what is involved with renouncing because I get nothing but voice mails and no clear instructions.
We don’t want to do anything too knee jerk but there’s no way that country should get so much as a penny of her money or our son’s education fund
@Parts_Unknown, yes as he was born in America he has American citizenship. Because he’s employed by the Canadian goverment he can relinquish (note this is different from renouncing) because presumably he swore an oath of alligence when he first took up his position. This is called an expatriating act. Have a read here:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/12/relinquish-dont-renounce-if-you-can/
What he needs to do to relinquish is take any documents he has confirming his employment, copy of the oath if he has one, Canadian passport, etc, to the nearest US embassy/consulate. He’ll also need to fill in form DS-4079:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
He contacts the embassy/consulate either by phone or e-mail; each one has a different method of making appointments for relinquishments/renunciations so check their website. They’ll guide him from there on how they want the paperwork delivered to them and make an appointment date for him. At the embassy/consulate they’ll check everything with him and, unless there’s some glaring reason why he shouldn’t be allowed to relinquish, they’ll send all the paperwork on to the State Department for final approval.
You can read up on people’s experiences when relinquishing/renouncing here:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Consulate-Report-Directory-2013.12.21.g.pdf
How long has he been employed by the government? Depending on how long ago he started work he may not need to file any tax returns.
If you hold joint accounts with your husband then they would have to be reported should he need to file. Your children shouldn’t be affected, assuming they weren’t born in the States, because although they can claim American citizenship from him, they also have to actively apply for it.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/05/31/we-want-to-know-once-and-for-all-for-sure-is-it-true-legal-policy-a-choice-the-us-cannot-force-anyone-who-is-born-outside-of-the-us-to-acquire-us-citizenship/
Don’t rush into anything. Take a deep breath and take your time to research exactly what the implications will be for you and your family. The information is out there, you just need to work through it to find the best way forward. We’re here if you have more questions.
@ Parts_Unknown
read my comments regarding RELINQUISHMENT (for a government employee) as they may help you including children who may not be affected based on failure of the US parent to live in the US either 5 years or 10 years depending on the child’s birthdate…
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/comment-page-72/#comment-958240
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/comment-page-72/#comment-961364
You should read as much as you can on this link including past comments I made during 2013 as I successfully completed this process.
“How long has he been employed by the government? Depending on how long ago he started work he may not need to file any tax returns.
If you hold joint accounts with your husband then they would have to be reported should he need to file. Your children shouldn’t be affected, assuming they weren’t born in the States, because although they can claim American citizenship from him, they also have to actively apply for it.”
My partner has been employed by the Fed Govt since 2009, prior to Charlie Rangel bringing FACTA to congress.
We have a mortgage together but I think that’s it; our son’s RESP is in my partner’s name. My partner does have RRSPs though.
Thank you for your help and any further help I may ask (beg) for
🙂
@Parts Unknown
If your son was born out of wedlock (you do refer to her as your ‘partner’) and your partner had been present for a continuous year prior to the birth of your son, she could have passed US citizenship on to your son – that is if she hadn’t relinquished prior to giving birth. Your son sound safe.
My partner and I were married when my son was born. I am using vague terms like partner so as to protect my partner’s identity.
In ref to the FATCA, I was born by happenstance in USA. Father was Canadian with green card and mother British subject in Canada. Was in USA short period when born. Father deceased when I was . I never worked or lived in USA. I obtained Canadian citizenship when 18 yrs old. I joined the Canadian Armed Forces as a soldier in 1986 and again in 2000. I located the following info about whether I would still have my dual citizenship and the implications with FATCA. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481
Am I reading this correctly? Thanks very much.
@ worried
If you were an officer in the Canadian military then I believe that is indeed considered to be an act of relinquishment. I have no idea if everyone in the military is an “officer” or not. You would know though. I think you could get a back-dated CLN to 1986 and therefore not have the tax filing nightmare. Citizenship law has changed in the USA over the years (e.g. conscientious objectors to the Vietnam war who came to Canada had their US citizenship stripped and then returned later — some didn’t even know that). Uncle Sam tends to use citizenship as a club — take it away when you displease him and inflict it when you can add to his number of tax slaves.
Thank you. The following indicates non commissioned members and commissioned members: Where would I locate the reference documents she mentioned? Cheers.
(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer
Should I go to the consulate and renounce my American citizenship based on the attached?
(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer
@ worried
Sorry I don’t know what referenced documents you mean. Did you mean the CLN because I should have spelled that out — Certificate of Loss of Nationality. It is the official document those who have relinquished or renounced receive from the State Department. I should also mention that if you in any way reconnect to the USA after a relinquishing act (get a US passport, file US taxes, vote in a US election, etc.) then you are probably back in the grip of Uncle Sam.
@ worried
If everything points to you having committed an act of relinquishment in the past you do not go into a consulate to renounce. You go in to have them officially recognize your past act of relinquishment.
Thanks, I have never done any of those things you just mentioned. I never lived in USA beyond under the age of 5. I never worked in USA or have an American passport. Can I relinquish my American citizenship even though it seems I have already when I joined the Canadian military. I also have a Canadian citizenship at age 18. How do I go about renouncing this. What am I required to provide?
What documents would I need? Military records and what else?
@worried:
‘Officer or non-commissioned officer’ in a Canadian context means master-corporal/master-seaman and above. Though I guess you could make a case that officer cadets don’t count. Not sure how relevant that is for you, ie. what rank you left at.
FWIW if I was in your position I’d apply for a relinquishment backdated to 1986, based on your citizenship oath and the oath of allegiance to the Crown you took when you enlisted. That gives you 349(a)(1) and 349(a)(2).
I’d be very surprised if they gave you a hard time, but if they did you can order a copy of your service file from DND under the Privacy Act – it should have a copy of the oath.