Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 2
US RELINQUISHMENT RENUNCIATION.m2
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress.
(We are starting Part 2 as Part 1 has now over 1,000 comments.) Link to “Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1”
This Relinquishment and Renunciation database corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory, which tracks individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments below (or someone can contact you privately if you leave a message).
This database and the Consulate Report Directory have proven valuable resources for those new to the subject of relinquishment and renunciation. They can see numbers for and read others’ experiences of relinquishment or renunciation at various US consulates throughout the world — as reported by participants of the Isaac Brock site.
Thanks for your addition to the Relinquishment and Renunciation database. Your input will definitely help others.
@Titus
I am in OVDI, and like you, haven’t heard a word back from the IRS since entering two years ago. We did hear back from Treasury soon after entering however, when they reimbursed us our PLR fee and told us our RRSP’s would be dealt with in OVDI. Our lawyer recently told us that the IRS on their own have moved about 25% of his OVDI clients over to Streamlined. I haven’t yet renounced as our lawyer said it would be like “waiving a red flag” in front of the IRS, but after two years of waiting, maybe a red flag or two wouldn’t hurt!
@Bubblebustin
I also had concerns about how the IRS might view renunciation. My lawyer gave his o.k., as long as I was discreet.
I guess it depends on your circumstances, but I found it quite liberating.
Congratulations, Titus. I’m going to error on the side of caution at this point. You can also say it’s too late for me to exercise discretion 😉
@Titus
Could you explain what your lawyer meant by “discreet”? I am currently going thru the Streamlined procedure and should be in a position to renounce in 2014. To renounce with full confidence I would like to have received a “thumbs up” on my Streamlined filings from the IRS. However, if I do not receive the “thumbs up” in a timely manner, I may go ahead and renounce anyway. As such, your situation is of interest and hence my question on what “discreet” means.
TIA
@tdott, I think you’re being optimistic that you’ll get anything like a thumbs up from the IRS. If you owe them money, yes you’ll hear from them. If you don’t, you’ll hear nothing. They can’t be bothered to issue documents saying everything’s fine on your tax status. That would be both too easy and too logical to put peoples’ minds at rest.
I don’t know why they’re so inefficient. Both Switzerland and the UK send me tax info on a regular basis year after year, even if it’s just a “tax due £0.00” sheet (UK).
For me, I renounced this year and will complete the Streamlined program in 2014. As far as I’m concerned then, it’s done. I owe them nothing and don’t expect to hear anything further about it. Whether the Swiss banks will do anything with our accounts remains to be seen; we’ve had them from well before the dates mentioned for category 2 bank compliance, but if nothing is owed to my mind they shouldn’t touch them.
@MedeaFleecestealer
” … , but if nothing is owed to my mind they shouldn’t touch them.”
I wish I were as optomistic as you are. We all know too well that FBAR fines have nothing to do whether one owes the US taxes or not. With all the information the US aleady has it reamins to be seen how hard up they are going to be about those who haven’t filed all their FBARs for the past 6 years.
All those who chose the going forward method just before the streamlined procedure came inot play are in for quite a ride for the next few year. I just hope that the clock is faster that the IRS. 😉
@tdott
Discreet as in don’t put it on your Facebook page or go to the media before the case is resolved. Didn’t ask about posting on a blog under a nom de plume.
@tdott, my understanding is that if you are in the Streamlined and they don’t need anything from you that you will hear nothing. If they need to contact you it’s usually about an issue or a problem. Otherwise there is no way to know if you are good to go.
I have renounced my US birth nationality and received a certificate from the State Department stating I am no longer US national. I have filed all the documents with the IRS almost a year ago (by registered mail), but have not received anything back from the IRS. Am I supposed to receive a certificate from the IRS stating that I am renounced also for them, or do they never send out anything once you file their documents?
@zinneken, have you done your 8854 and 8938 forms to finish off yet? They can be done up to a year after you renounce. They’re the last forms that need to be done.
No, you won’t get any notification from the IRS. That would be too easy. I believe if you file the actual forms like 1040 you can get your progress online. I only needed to file the FBAR’s so can’t check my status. Of course, if you owe them anything you’ll soon hear about it.
A freind of mine renounced early January of this year. This means he/she has to wait until 2015 to file 1040, 1040NR and 8854. Any excpetion to this rule due to the small amount of days as a US citizen in 2014?
@jgl51
Yes, he’ll have to wait until 2015 to file for 2014. I’m not aware of any exceptions to this.
@ MedeaFleecestealer, yes, I sent by registered mail f1040, f8854, i1040, i8938 in february 2013. I never heard anything from them.
How does one know all is cleared with the IRS? I mean, can they come back X years from now saying you owe them the X years because they didn’t register the information which was sent X years before?
@zinneken
“How does one know all is cleared with the IRS?”
You’ll never get explicit confirmation of that. You can check the status of your return online, however. That way you’ll at least know that they’ve received it, even if you have no refund or payment due. Also you will have gotten a return receipt from your registered mail, yes?
As far as coming back X years from now. Yes, I believe the statute of limitations on tax returns is 3 years and 6 years on FBARs. After that you should be out of the woods.
I had to file 1040x for three years after discovering errors in the way I reported my income. No change to tax due (none), but different split between earned and unearned income. I received letters from the IRS saying they had amended my records as I requested, and that any change in money due or owing would come by separate letter. I didn’t get those letters. But I assume they have finished with my returns, and these letters are all they send. More than I’ve ever had on regular returns.
I’m praying that my accountant will submit my final return and paperwork before 15 June, though can’t do anything until I receive my statements from my brokerage, who tend to take ages. I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t have to file for an extension which could mean all of this dragging into the autumn!!! I just want to get it all over and done with.
@monalisa1776
Just send in a ‘pre-emptive’ form 4868 now. While it won’t make things run any faster at least you can relax about the deadlines until autumn. I’ve already sent mine, since like you I get late paperwork every single year (if by some miracle the paperwork arrives on time you can still send in your return before 15 Apr, 15 Jun or whenever). Plus, one more piece of silly and pointless paper for the IRS to process is yet another tiny bit of sand in the gears.
(BTW, each year I appreciate the irony of having to apply for an ‘automatic’ extension of time to file. If you have to apply for something then it isn’t automatic…)
Must read:
Global News,has an updated story on the rising US expatriation figures – and this is by the author Patrick Cain who compares the numbers in the Federal Register ‘name and shame’ list to the FBI numbers for those – (see specific category for ex-citizens) precluded from owning firearms.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1072303/over-3100-americans-renounced-citizenship-last-year-fbi/
January 10, 2014 9:30 am
More than 3,100 Americans renounced citizenship last year: FBI
By Patrick Cain
Cain references and links to the letter by constitutional lawyer Peter Hogg to the Finance Minister re his concerns about the serious issues with signing a FATCA IGA, and also notes yesterday’s release of Nina Olson IRS Taxpayer Advocate 2013 Report to Congress. The author provide a link to the report, and quotes the TAS: “……On Thursday, a report released by the U.S. National Taxpayer Advocate strongly criticized FATCA in a report to Congress, saying the costs exceed projected revenue, the law creates sovereigntyconflicts with other countries – using Canada as an example – and the IRS’s computer systems aren’t ready to handle such a complex project.
“[The] IRS has not acted upon advice it has received from some well-informed stakeholders,” Nina Olsen warned in the report. “FATCA carries with it the potential for substantial resource burdens and significant due process concerns.””
@badger
That article is incredible, not only in its context, but the fact that a Canadian journalist is covering the subject of renunciations so extensively. WOW, double WOW!
@badger
Nice find. He references the consulate report here at IBS as well!
@Badge, Worthy of its own post?
@Badger
AWESOME!!! Thank You for giving us a heads up. I noticed the pdf
“What is it like to renounce U.S. citizenship? Several dozen first-hand accounts can be seen here (.pdf).)”
It is THE ISAAC BROCK SOCIETY
Consulate Report Directory
Oh so wonderful.
I immediately called up the Editor of my local paper whom I gave a slew of FATCA information including the FATCA warning sheets, fact sheet and Blaze’s letter to Flaherty before Christmas. I spoke to him and asked him if he read the material…He had not but said he would read this weekend. I told him about the Global article and to read it. This is exciting news. He ended the call with I have your number. So maybe the wheels are starting to move a bit.
I spoke of FATCA to my town’s local pastor who is also a pastor in a major city south of me. She knows both her MPs and said she would be speaking to them personally. She never heard of FATCA and thought it incredibly ridiculous.
So my advise is to start talking. Who cares if people think you are crazy…Accept that some will but some won’t and the word will spread .
@WhiteKat
Yes. And so does the NTA’s report to Congress.
@zinneken, try the “Refund Check”:
https://sa2.www4.irs.gov/irfof/lang/en/irfofgetstatus.jsp
If you are expecting no refund, then enter $1. For most of last year, it told me that my return hadn’t been processed yet. Yet, now it tells me that I entered incorrect Information.
There is no option to select for non-resident aliens.
@Badger…
I put your FBI article back onto Eric’s original post for cross referencing. Thanks for pointing it out..
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/02/13/fbi-says-three-thousand-renounced-us-citizenship-last-quarter-but-irs-claims-it-was-just-45/comment-page-4/#comment-957191