Media and Blog Articles Open for Comments – Part 5 of 11 (Year 2018)

1,714 thoughts on “Media and Blog Articles Open for Comments – Part 5 of 11 (Year 2018)”

1. Still leaves unanswered the question of why they are asking about dual nationalities.

   I suspect that banks in the US are doing just what FIs outside the US have done and will be over reporting. Either out of fear of missing something and getting hit with a fine or having watched this play out as it thus far has, betting that more data on a larger group of people will have to be shared in the future so it is more cost effective to do just the one IT “upgrade”.

   Duals in the US are going to have their data shared with their other country of citizenship.

2. It’s quite clear why BoA is asking about citizenship; it’s about sanctions.

   “Duals in the US are going to have their data shared with their other country of citizenship.”

   Certainly could be the case in future, if other countries move towards citizenship-based taxation. Not at present though.

3. “It’s quite clear why BoA is asking about citizenship; it’s about sanctions.”

   That’s not the same as asking about dual citizenships. As stated above, if one’s second citizenship is from a sanction country, if they also have USCship, then no issue for them.

4. “That’s not the same as asking about dual citizenships. As stated above, if one’s second citizenship is from a sanction country, if they also have USCship, then no issue for them.”

   Unfortunately there could potentially be quite a serious issue for them if they’ve sent money to a sanctioned country.

5. “Unfortunately there could potentially be quite a serious issue for them if they’ve sent money to a sanctioned country.”

   That’s true for any resident of the US regardless of cituzenship or how many citizenships that have. Dual citizenshio plays no part in that.

6. You can have dual citizenship and not be a US citizen! You can also be a dual citizen and not know it.

7. Yep. So why are they goung to be asking about dual citizenship? Doubt it’s so that they can give culturally appropriate birthday gifts to their account holders.

8. “You can have dual citizenship and not be a US citizen! You can also be a dual citizen and not know it.”

   Indeed you can.

9. But is BoA asking for self certification, if so
   Duals from a sanctioned country could keep silent. Opening an account in the US in the past just need a driver’s license and utility bill.
   Sending over $10,000 abroad from a US account always rang alarm bells and was reported to the IRS wherever it went.

10. Does it matter?

11. Not to us expats I guess. But it’s important to keep informed of their MO and the status quo.

12. Asking about dual citizenship seems like a pretty ignorant and naive move on the part of the bank, as it opens a Pandora’s Box of possibilities. Look at what the existence of dual citizenship has done in Australia when politicians are forbidden from maintaining dual status. It created a situation where individuals need to be proactive in determining their status, for fear of being caught having misrepresented themselves.

    Citizenship determined by whom? The US or the country in which the customer may hold another Citizenship? The US requires a naturalized citizen to renounce all others, yet the bank is compelling the customer to explore the possibility that another Citizenship may exist for them.

13. Would be interesting to see all of the BoA forms with full text, if someone here has an account and is asked.

    Questions about “dual citizenship” specifically could either be something quite sinister that we don’t fully understand, or just a relatively ignorant bank employee’s interpretation of some internal rule. Given the various dumb and incorrect ways I’ve seen the FATCA question phrased in Canada, I tend to the latter view.

    What I’d be curious about, predictably, are the consequences of “incorrect” self-certification. Is it a violation of some federal law, or just harmless “perjury” on a bank form?

14. “Is it a violation of some federal law, or just harmless “perjury” on a bank form?”

    Or just a matter of interpretation?

15. BB
    “A matter of interpretation” exactly and interpretation by whom?
    Doesnt Iran refuse to recognise dual citizenship?
    I will await my BoA questionnaire!

16. justanswer.com has this answer – whether it’s correct or not I do not know.

    Under recent regulations implementing the Patriot Act, the Department of Treasury has mandated that financial institutions implement what is called a “Customer Identification Program” (CIP). Under the CIP the finacial institution is required to verify the identity of their customers.
    Because there are different processes for citizen vs. non-citizen customers the financial institution is forced to ask,
    Here is a link to the regulations:
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/1020.220
    Also see:
    https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/examinations/bsa/ffiec_cip.pdf

    https://www.justanswer.com/law/ay8zg-bank-america-asking-dual-citizenship.html

17. @plaxy
    Good find, you deserve the Brock search engine award.

18. Heidi – 🙂

19. @plaxy

    The link you found confirms my view that the bank may be seeking out information on customers’ non-US citizenships for reasons unrelated to FATCA/CRS. Asking about dual citizenship is a very stupid way to go about it, but that doesn’t surprise me given how badly other banks formulate these questions.

    Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence – my version of Occam’s Razor.

20. Nononymous –

    “Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence”

    Indeed.

21. Lynnley Browning writes sympathetically about the unintentional victims of GILTI: the poor, beleaguered, starving banks of Wall Street
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-30/wall-street-fears-new-international-tax-that-was-aimed-at-tech (archived https://archive.is/VHm6p)

22. “Never attribut to malice what can be attributed to imcompetence.”

    Ah, one of my favorites.

    However, in this case it is not what a handful of customers have been told by one or a few bank employees. This is something the bank is saying it will be sending out to all its customers.

    I think it is more likely that having been hit with fines for noncompliance back in 2014, they are overly cautious. Banks have compliance officers whose duty it is to make certain the bank is not violating any law or regulation. I’d bet that BOA believed that they were in compliance and with good reason, yet were hit with fines anyway. An experience that would generate a lot of research to prevent a recurrance. Seeing where all this regulation is going, they are planning ahead.

    Nothing happens in a vacuum and things are rarely done for just one reason.

23. Living Abroad Isn’t So Idyllic for U.S. Expats Facing New Taxes
    Joe Light
    31 July 2018
    https://www.bloombergquint.com/quarterly-earnings/2018/07/31/q1-results-tata-motors-posts-surprise-loss#gs.XVQdD0I

24. Here’s a working link for the article JC mentions:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-31/living-abroad-isn-t-so-idyllic-for-u-s-expats-facing-new-taxes (archived https://archive.is/nbgaj)

    (I hate that stupid infinite scrolling thing where you go to the end of the article and think “hey great, let me copy that URL”, but instead it’d already loaded another story below and changed the URL on you)

25. Hello All-

    Hello all I sent a message to the House Ways & Means Committee – that is to ALL members of this committee via a reply to a tweet that has 48 addresses on it. Pls RT/Like on Twitter.

    Trying some “reverse logic” and asking for something we don’t really want, yet all to highlight the US Government tax cheating – thats right calling the USG a tax cheat for a change, let them claim it is not true:

    Replying to @JCDoubleTaxed @cneitzert and 48 others

    US Fed Gov expenditure is $12,570 per person/yr.

    For the 6-9 million US persons resident overseas: USG owes $75-$113 Billion/yr for LOCAL SERVICES. Not ZERO services in exchange for US tax claim.

    END the USG Tax Cheating!

    @GroverNorquist #taxreform #ttfi #FATCA #SmallBiz

    Double click to expand & RT/Like , also to see a meme attached:

    https://twitter.com/JCDoubleTaxed/status/1024618838678093824

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