Media and Blog Articles Open for Comments – Part 5 of 11 (Year 2018)

1,714 thoughts on “Media and Blog Articles Open for Comments – Part 5 of 11 (Year 2018)”

1. “s he saying there should be1099 information returns for ex pats or that FATCA proponents say there should be.”

   The latter, I believe.

2. @japan T Twitter has only a limited number of characters allowed so it results in abbreviations and short cuts.

   So do you have statistics that say the percentage of persons filing returns by country (to the countries in which they live) and then some statement about that percentage is the same for U.S. persons resident in those countries?

   @portland. It would be wrong to give up on Solomon Yue, as there are no other legislative initiatives that may get anywhere. John Richardson is not giving up on him, he is trying to help his efforts and will lunch with him and Grover Norquist and others about TTFI planning.

3. The IRS publishes tax return stats by state here https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-historic-table-2

   Taking the 2015 files we find that in 2015 when the US population was 321million there were 149million returns filed from US addresses (2.15 persons per return) and 751k returns filed from outside of the 50 states plus DC.

   The number of US citizens living outside the US is questionable. The DoS estimate of 9M has never been verified, and other sources seem to indicate that 6-7M is more reasonable. But if we take the 9M number as correct, and use the domestic rate of 1 return per 2.15 persons, the compliance rate is around 18% (higher if we use the lower estimates of number of expats).

   The IRS stats also show that there is zero total tax liability on about 54% of returns from outside the US (for domestic returns this number is 25%).

4. Thanks. Two questions:

   Do the 751k returns filed from outside the US include government and military employees?

   Also I keep seeing the statistic that 93% of returns filed from Canada have no balance owing. Where might that number have come from?

5. “Do the 751k returns filed from outside the US include government and military employees?”

   Excellent question.

   I do not know but to fill the void until someone whomdoes know chimes in, overseas military addresses are considered, or at leadt were when I served, domestic addresses. When I filed my tax returns from my ship homeported in Japan, the returns were sent to the IRS as originating from a US address.

6. @Karen that is 46.4% of persons in the U.S. file tax returns. So then that brings that percentage in our favour.

   Good point about the 9 million.

   18% sounds better than 7%, once again figures moving in our favour.

   Also in regards to the 54% not owing tax – this must be viewed in the context of a U.S. tax system that incentivises filing by erroring on the side of refund rather than extra tax owed. Many of that 54% not only did not owe U.S. tax but neither paid any U.S. tax. Can we compare statistics of (owed & paid for U.S. residents) compared to those overseas who (owed & paid) vs. not owing/paid. ? I think this might help.

7. I tried to think of kids and nonUS spouse (who would not be part of the 9 million) but had no better idea how that may make the stats more favorable.

8. @JC

   I believe that kids are a part of that number, the estimated 9 million. The number of reported births abroad has dropped in recent years. There was a study used both an older birth rate of USCs abroad to estimate the number of actual births and this same study or another used the birth ate of homelanders and applied it to USCs living abroad. If memory serves, I believe this study or these studies were used in part to arrive at the 9 million number.

   If REALLY REALLY REALLY important, I will dig through my now disorganised mountain of stuff. Although, I hope that someone familiar with this can find it more easily and post it.

9. The IRS data is based on the address on the return. I’m picking up what they call “OA” for Other Areas – this explicitly includes APO/FPO addresses plus PR and other territories — essentially everything that isn’t DC or one of the 50 states. Expats who use a US mailing address would not be included. There’s no way to break it down any further.

   The 54% number is the number of returns with zero (or blank) on the Total Tax Liability line (line 63 on the 2017 form 1040) – not net tax due.

   I’ve put the 2015 data up on Google Sheets – https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Sdk0S62U84peJtFwHCWKG9T7j2ndgLZIzWjpVKwvrMo/edit?usp=sharing

   The file compares OA (Other Areas) with all returns.

10. Also to put the percentages in context.

    In the U.S. 47% do not pay federal taxes. It is assumed that roughly this number do not file returns. Could be the same for the overseas population. However, quite importantly, the 47% overseas, actually the 100% overseas do not drain on U.S. resident services.

11. “Twitter has only a limited number of characters allowed so it results in abbreviations and short cuts.”

    And lots of typographical symbols.

    Ideal for those whose job is to keep dribbling out gnomic content-free utterances for the faithful few to pore over while the next heist is being prepared.

    By the time the Republicans have finished, US expats will be apologising for contributing so little to the US economy and begging to be allowed to hang on to tax credits.

    Enough, it seems, is never, ever enough. Do it again, Uncle Sam…

12. “#CBT is unjust/must be replaced w/ #TTFI. All ur complaints R legit. But I can’t defend no filings w/ them. Proponents used 600K of 9M filed returns, all expats have foreign accts & must be FATCATS hiding tax, 1099 4 expats is needed, renunciation is 4 tax avoidance 2 pass #FATCA”

    CBT is unjust and must be replaced with Territorial Taxation For Individuals. All expats’ complaints are legitimate. But I can’t defend expats’ failure to file US tax returns on the basis of your legitimate complaints. Proponents of FATCA used the arguments (that only 600,000 out of nine million expats filed US tax returns; that all expats have foreign accounts and must be FATCATs hiding cash; that a law requiring 1099s for expats is needed; that renunciation is for tax avoidance;) to pass FATCA.

    Hmm. I don’t think they did, did they? Wasn’t it just voted through without being read by those voting?

    Anyway, it seems the ground is being prepared. Soon the Republicans will have their last go at legislation with their present Congressional configuration. CBT and FATCA will not be mentioned. Possibly, new imaginary obligations will be deemed up for expats. Solomon will blame the Twitter followers for demanding too much, petitioning too little, delivering too few votes, not being patriotic. And the cycle will begin again.

13. @Plaxy

    “Anyway, it seems the ground is being prepared. Soon the Republicans will have their last go at legislation with their present Congressional configuration. CBT and FATCA will not be mentioned. Possibly, new imaginary obligations will be deemed up for expats. Solomon will blame the Twitter followers for demanding too much, petitioning too little, delivering too few votes, not being patriotic. And the cycle will begin again.”

    Sadly, I fear you are correct.

14. Solomon Yue is claiming major victory with this U.S. Treasury Inspector General Report on FATCA

    https://www.oversight.gov/sites/default/files/oig-reports/201830040fr.pdf

15. From Solomon Yue

    https://twitter.com/SolomonYue/status/1017073317134495744

    We delivered Treasury review & won #FATCA argument 2 help #TTFI passage. https://www.oversight.gov/sites/default/files/oig-reports/201830040fr.pdf …
    Treasury report states IRS has spent over $380M trying 2 enforce FATCA but is failing miserably at doing it. It demonstrates that the law is flawed & should be repealed

    https://twitter.com/SolomonYue/status/1017119812525277184

    This Treasury #FATCA report really is the first major PR victory for 9 million overseas Americans.

16. @plaxy

    I like your comparison. A point of hypocrisy: expats must know and obey the law, but in passage of the Hire Act Congress persons did not know about FATCA and its consequences.

17. Sounds like RO legal challenge not stopped, but in next chapter:

    https://twitter.com/SolomonYue/status/1017171148906172416

    Washington Times’ American Super Lawyer James Bopp Jr would agree w/ you: #FATCA is unconstitutional. We had 8 claims against it. 2 federal courts ruled against our FATCA lawsuits on standing, not on merits of our claims. Now we look 4 new plaintiffs who received IRS fine letter.

18. I glanced through the TIGTA report on FATCA which Solomon Yue describes as a “major victory”. If you look at page 3, the Treasury Inspector General’s recommendations appear to be (in my limited interpretation): 1) Squeeze the foreign financial institutions even harder to gather US account holders’ TINs. 2) Turn up the juice on compliance enforcement.

    In what way is that a “victory”?

19. Barbara, I agree. RO is trying to paint this as an acknowledgement that FATCA has failed, when it is anything but.

20. JC: “ A point of hypocrisy: expats must know and obey the law, but in passage of the Hire Act Congress persons did not know about FATCA and its consequences.”

    On the button. And when they passed the TCJA, even the sponsors didn’t know what they were sponsoring nor what its consequences would be. Now they’re having to re-legislate, to try to fix it in order to be able to implement it.

    Good topic for an IBS post, I suggest.

21. JC:

    In the U.S. 47% do not pay federal taxes. It is assumed that roughly this number do not file returns. Could be the same for the overseas population. However, quite importantly, the 47% overseas, actually the 100% overseas do not drain on U.S. resident services.

    I think a much larger proportion of expats don’t file. What it demonstrates is not that expats are tax cheats but that it’s hard to impose laws extraterritorially. That’s why most countries don’t try. The US, in its usual counter-factual way, tries and fails. As in a war or three I could mention.

22. Apparently, it’s Solomon Yue’s job to keep claiming the Republicans are winning victories for expats over the expat-hostile Republican administration.

23. So much winning.

24. We’re dealing with the low grade us populace populace. Most are ontologically empty and simply, could not thk critically. Looking at things in a detached/objective way, how could anyone reasonable person could to a different conclusion.

    the us subjects were simply tax cows. any leaving the open air prison/plantation was simply in their view: treasonous, tax evader, FATCAT, etc….we’re dealing with us simpletons who have not traveled much, and IF they even travel overseas for holiday—it’s like they hang in a pope mobile- only hanging with Anglos/English speakers sequestered from a new culture etc…..

    How does one conclude or thk that anything substantive with change with FATCA and CBT when we’re dealing with the corrupt, ontologically empty us empire–who’s rancid narrative was: get money, get more money–hu$tlers?

    Who’s wool WAS their eyes.

25. “Victory”? with the TIGTA report? The victory would be renounciation from the us empire.

    All the: we shoulds, we musts, we need tos, revolt, resist, lawyer false hopes, energetic speechs, fake radio chat shows, etc…is collective yammer–a bunch of folks selling snake oil and someday somedaze talk.

    There will be little traction to any for any repeal/substantive change to FATCA and CBT. americans do NOT really travel. the us is ALL they know. They simply cannot thk and believe whatever the propaganda “news” tells em. How many even know or care about FATCA and CBT? Crickets. They’re too busy hamster-wheeling for corporations.

    Also, the us pollys want to be re-elected and they don’t want to supporting “foreign” FATCATS? Hence, nothing will change. SImply more delusional calls for: we must, we should, aim plans, lawyer yammer, passionate speeches….all does little to anything. That’s reality.

    Moreover, The us empire and its’ lackey (“sovereign” countries) all bend over, spread the cheeks, and signed on up to screw us citizens/duals. They massively violated american’s “rights”–apparently a us “person” is OWNED by the us govt. Tax subject. That’s it. That’s reality.

    What does that say? All the tax subjects have is some tax credit gimmick games that the tax compliance industry loves for bullsht jobs.

    RENOUNCE.

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