Media and Blog Articles Open for Comments – Part 5 of 11 (Year 2018)

1,714 thoughts on “Media and Blog Articles Open for Comments – Part 5 of 11 (Year 2018)”

1. Taxation is not slavery.

2. “The rent money paid to him would go into an account he has in GB. He naturally pays all taxes due to Her Majesty’s government. Upon what basis does Japan have a right to tax or even know about any of this?

   I don’t get it. What’s the problem?”

   What justification does Japan have to tax his earning from assests in GB?

3. “What justification does Japan have to tax his earning from assests in GB?”

   Is he paying tax on the rent to both countries?

4. No, taxation is not slavery. But we are talking about taxation, We are talking about how of our income belongs to which nation, THAT is slavery.

   What is missing in this discussion is the justification of taxes. If the justification of taxation is to pay for the services provides to the taxpayer, then there is not justification to tax money earn or held overseas.

   If the justification is based upon “association”, then it really is slavery renamed taxation to make us slaves feel less put off by it.

5. ““What justification does Japan have to tax his earning from assests in GB?”

   Is he paying tax on the rent to both countries?”

   If assets are over a certain amount, as of 2011 or 2013, he has to report them to Japan and if over a higher level, possibly pay taxes on them.

   I know for fact that fireign residence who stay more than three years in Japan now must report assests held outside Japan, but I am not so certain if there is yet a tax. I think that there now is but can not recall for sure.

6. “We are talking about how of our income belongs to which nation, THAT is slavery.”

   No, it’s cross-border taxation. You don’t get to decide which country has taxing rights on your income.

7. In reference to my last comment, change the countries to combination of any other countries, what justification would any country in Japan’s position in my example have to demand that data and/or tax?

8. “Is he paying tax on the rent to both countries?”

   No. And he shouldn’t be. Neither should he be filling out forms to claim a tax treaty exemption to avoid paying taxes in GB for that rental income so that it is ONLY taxed in Japan. It is a merry-go-round of forms, filing and reporting that is pure insanity. Just tax the income where it is sourced. Simple. And everyone benefits. And Japan doesn’t need to concern itself with the tax laws of GB and vice versa.

9. “You don’t get to decide which country has taxing rights on your income.”

   No, but neither should some self-important country be able to swoop in with extra-terratorial tax schemes to undermine other nations’ tax bases. That’s exactly the point.

10. “If assets are over a certain amount, as of 2011 or 2013, he has to report them to Japan and if over a higher level, possibly pay taxes on them.”

    It depends on what the treaty says. He might be able to raise a complaint with the Competent Authorities, if he’s being double-taxed.

11. “neither should some self-important country be able to swoop in with extra-terratorial tax schemes to undermine other nations’ tax bases.”

    Base erosion is indeed a source of intense disagreement among the OECD countries.

12. ““We are talking about how of our income belongs to which nation, THAT is slavery.”

    No, it’s cross-border taxation. You don’t get to decide which country has taxing rights on your income.”

    What is the justification of taxation? Yes, I do have the right to determine who has taxing rights on my income. I exercise that right by choosing which contries services to use. If my income is earned in country A, the country A and country A has the justification to tax regardless where I live because it is country A and country A which provides the services (police, fire, regulations etc) needed to maintain it.

    I agree, base erosion is a concern, but it is country A’s tax base which is being eroded by my country of residence, country B, if country B demands data and or tax on earnings earned solely in country A.

13. ““If assets are over a certain amount, as of 2011 or 2013, he has to report them to Japan and if over a higher level, possibly pay taxes on them.”

    It depends on what the treaty says. He might be able to raise a complaint with the Competent Authorities, if he’s being double-taxed.”

    If he is indeed taxed, then yes, he can complain about it and then years later, when enough noise has been made by enough people, a new treaty might be written that fixes the issue. Until then, he has to continue paying. As treat changes seem to come only after enough people are hurt by a change in one or the other countries laws, he’d likely have quite some time to wait for it to be redressed.

14. “Yes, I do have the right to determine who has taxing rights on my income. I exercise that right by choosing which contries services to use. ”

    Last time I looked, nobody had any such right. You may feel that you ought to have such a right, but in fact it’s the nations which decide how they want to divide up the taxation of cross-border income.

15. “If he is indeed taxed, then yes, he can complain about it and then years later, when enough noise has been made by enough people, a new treaty might be written that fixes the issue. ”

    Much more likely, the complaint wouldn’t be upheld.

16. “Last time I looked, nobody had any such right. You may feel that you ought to have such a right, but in fact it’s the nations which decide how they want to divide up the taxation of cross-border income.”

    It is not cross border income if it doesn’t cross the border.

    Again, what is the justification for taxation? If it is not to pay for services available to the taxpayer, then what, exactly is the justification for taxation?

17. “If he is indeed taxed, then yes, he can complain about it and then years later, when enough noise has been made by enough people, a new treaty might be written that fixes the issue. ”

    Much more likely, the complaint wouldn’t be upheld.”

    So, just a useless waste of time, then.

18. “You may feel that you OUGHT to have such a right, but in fact it’s the nations which decide how they want to divide up the taxation of cross-border income.”

    Yes, this is a theoretical discussion of an optimised system of taxation, one that is fairer and simpler than the current state of affairs involving cross-border taxation, treaties, totalisation agreements, IGAs, AML, KYC, FATCA, GILTI, CRS, and so on and so forth.

    It would be so much easier if nations stuck to controlling only that which occurs within their own borders. The whole idea of cross-border taxation and the resulting need for legislation to enforce it is unrealistic, as we on this forum are all too familiar with as we experience the ludicrous and detrimental effects those policies have first hand.

19. “It is not cross border income if it doesn’t cross the border.”

    It’s cross-border income if the taxpayer resides in one country and the money is paid in another country.

    “what is the justification for taxation?”

    Lots on this in the ssrn archives, from every imaginable point of view. Waste of time in the real world, where we get taxed according to the law.

    Sometimes it’s possible to get the law changed, as we hope will happen in the Canadian and French lawsuits; until that happens — they say, we pay.

20. “So, just a useless waste of time, then.”

    Usually.

21. Ok then, what keeps this a “tax” issue only?

    Should bars in Japan have institute a US age verification system and pay fines to the US if they serve 20 year old USCs? 20 is the drinking age in Japan. If an USC living in Japan is beholden to US tax law, why not to US drinking age restrictions?

    Going back to my British friend. Let’s say he moved to a muslim country that enforces the Ramadan fast upon all its residence. If he is part owner of a resturant in GB and just for Ss and Gs one in Japan, do these have to close during Ramadan because one of the owners is a resident of a country whose laws forbid the operation of such places during this season?

    If not, given your explanation on “crossborder” taxation, why not “crossborder” anything and everything else?

    What justification is there for one useage of crossborder law to exist but not others?

22. Way off-topic. In fact, this whole sub-thread has drifted way off-topic. Apologies to other users. I’m off.

23. ““So, just a useless waste of time, then.”

    Usually.”

    Yea!

24. Hmm … interesting discussion going on here this morning BUT in an effort to put Media and Blog back on track … what about the upcoming “postcard 1040”? I don’t see this being of much help to form-burdened overseas filers. Complexity and confusion will reign as always because there is still no real KISS principle in the tax code itself. However, if it turns a significant number of electronic filers back into mail filers thus overwhelming the IRS processing system then I say let their migraines begin.
    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-new-tax-form-is-postcard-size-but-more-complicated-than-ever/
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/30/16219906/paul-ryans-postcard-tax-return
    https://www.npr.org/2017/11/03/561712483/gops-dream-postcard-size-tax-return

25. They should really turn it into a tweet.

    #AbandonHopeAllYeWhoEnterHereSignHereUnderPenaltyOfPerjury

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