Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

Just Saying No: Not Renouncing/Relinquishing Nor Complying

Some people cannot afford to renounce (or relinquish and get a CLN) and some people will not renounce or relinquish because they do not consider themselves to be US citizens.

This thread is a place for people in this situation to share information and experiences.  Thanks for sharing — your stories will be very helpful to others!

(For info and discussion on relinquishing and not obtaining a CLN, please go to the Self-Documented Relinquishment thread.)

If clicking on a link  brings you to the wrong place on the thread, click on this sentence to arrive on the current page of the thread.

276 thoughts on “Just Saying No: Not Renouncing/Relinquishing Nor Complying”

  2. Thanks Heidi, Yeah I am well under the income thresholds to actually owe anything. Of course, the crazy thing about the way they resist renunciation or relinquishment, is that if I, for example, give up my citizenship and do not return to reside in the USA I will be forfeiting a potential social security pension that I would qualify for in ten years and could be receiving for a further 20 years. Not to mention that the treasury has already received from me 20 something years of taxes. So from a strictly financial standpoint they should pay people to renounce if they will forfeit their potential social security.

  3. @Robin – You don’t have to forego your SSA pension. I applied for, and was awarded, a US social security pension at the same time I renounced. The helpful lady at the Federal Benefits Unit didn’t turn a hair when I mentioned that I was in the process of renouncing. I now receive the pension every month, and pay no tax to the US. (It is taxed by HMRC.)

  5. @Robin…some nuggets of wisdom.

    1. If you renew your US Passport in the USA you still must list your permanent address in addition to mailing address so they have your British address. If you list only a US mailing address you are then on record of being resident in the USA!!!

    2. It would be very wise to renew your US Passport BEFORE you take the oath as a British Citizen. You NEVER want to be in the situation of renewing your US Passport after your relinquishing act. You can renew now through the London Embassy by DX Delivery and you will have your renewal in 10 business days..its VERY fast.

    3. You can apply for British Citizenship thru whats called Nationality Checking Service at many Councils. They will copy your papers and US Passport and return them to you on the spot.

    4. Life in the UK is SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE, get the book on Amazon and take the test next week. The reality of the test is that its designed to see you are competent in English by asking questions on British Life.

    5. Once you take the Oath, you have committed a relinquishing act and are no longer a US Citizen. You should find a Solicitor and swear out an Affadavit with the Solicitor that you intended to relinquish. That will cost 100 pounds.

    6. You then apply for a British Passport and will need to send them your US Passport but send a note that you need it back ASAP for travel and enclose a special delivery envelope. British Passport will take 4 weeks plus an interview.

    So at that point you renewed your US Passport BEFORE you took the Oath, you committed a Relinquishing Act and have some documentation and you have a valid British passport. THEN and only then you can take a deep breath and decide what next.

    You could call it a day and say I have relinquished I am done.

    But you could say you are willing to go for and pay for a CLN but it is your choice.

    In regards to Social Security you are still entitled to it!!!!

  6. @Robin
    I also receive my SSA pension, as long as you have paid 10 years( 40 quarters.) If you haven:t your UK contributions may be taken into consideration.

  7. @Robin…..forgot to state but you should obtain non-USA citizenship as soon as possible simply because in the unlikely event the US came after you then you might not pass the suitable person test of being naturalised!!! The term I used is not correct but you get the drift.

  8. @Robin – you might want to ask your question about renewal of US passport in the US-UK forum at http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?board=17.0

    The posters there are very knowledgeable about UK visas, citizenship, etc. They’ll be able to give you a reliable estimate of how long the citizenship process is likely to take.

    Note that there’s no problem about renouncing with an expired US passport, as long as you’ve got a valid UK passport. My US passport was expired when I renounced.

  10. Thanks everyone. George, you say the test is simple but I have taken a sample test online a few times and failed every time (and I’ve been living here 18 years). There are a lot of history questions there – in fact it has been discussed over here that many Brits born here wouldn’t pass it. I have two books, the ‘study guide’ and official practice questions. Anyway, I’m sure it’s a bit ‘luck of the draw’ as to what questions you get when you actually sit for the test.

    I think the first thing I’ll do is get my US passport renewed – I don’t think they have the mechanism up just yet to flag passports of people they say owe tax and even if they did I don’t think I owe 50K (if anything).

    After that I’ll do the test and then apply for citizenship.

    I’ll have a look at that UK forum. I have been a bit hesitant about ‘expat’ forums as I had a bad experience some years ago, I joined an expat forum only to find it was filled with the most belligerent flag-waving hard core Americans and I was roundly shouted down the moment I suggested that CBT was not ethical.

  11. @Robin – the US/UK forum (the one I linked to) is very good for Visa/Citizenship info – not for CBT / renunciation info / discussion. IMO.

  12. For instance – here’s a thread about the problem of juggling {US passport renewal} with {UK citizenship application}:

    http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=89672.0

    KFDancer says:

    I’d recommend applying with the Nationality Checking Service. They’ll check everything for a reasonable fee (£90ish), make copies, and most importantly you keep your passport. That will solve the expiration issue.

    The downside of course is the extra cost.

    Link to contact info for LAs that offer a Nationality Checking Service:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/nationality-checking-service

  13. @Robin – When I took the Life in the UK test I allowed myself a month to prepare for it – spending some time every evening reading, making notes or doing practice tests. I had both of the books you have, read them cover to cover and made thorough notes on the study guide. By far the most useful thing I found was a website with 20 or 30 practice tests – not the official questions, but pretty blooming close to them – and I took them over and over again until I was confident that I could answer every single question correctly.

    I realise this may sound like overkill, but I’m the swotty type. And when I took my test I completed it in five minutes flat. There was only one question I was at all unsure about and I could narrow that one down to two possible options and guess (correctly as it happened).

    You are right – there’s a lot of history to learn and some fairly obscure questions on who invented things like the jet engine. (It was Frank Whittle, just in case you get that question.) And, yes, lots of British born people who have lived their whole lives in the UK would fail the test. But if you are willing to put in a decent amount of prep time you should be able to pass the test first time. Good luck!

  14. Hi Verity, I dug out the books earlier and was able to get 19 right on the 1st sample test, so that’s encouraging (just takes 18 to pass I think) and I can go back and make sure I know the ones I got wrong. Some are super easy but some require memorising dates or historical things about former kings and queens or names of famous battles etc.

  15. OK, just curious on your thoughts on this. Now that I have some info on the average times these things are taking, here’s what I’m thinking:

    Step 1. I take the Life in the UK test. I’ll study for the next few weeks and do the test before the end of March.

    Step 2. Once I have passed the Life in the UK test I take my completed citizenship application and current US passport to the nearest Nationality Checking Service for them to copy everything and submit my application.

    Step 3. With my test done and application submitted, I then send my US passport off to be renewed. I have been told that citizenship apps are taking about 4 months. (and using the NCS you can apply for a UK Passport at the same time you send your citizenship app in).

    So, within that 4 months wait there’s plenty of time to renew my US passport if I want to travel. As it expires on the 27th of Sept, I suppose there’s even a chance I could be granted citizenship before it expires. But not sure if I would need it to still be valid to get my UK passport?

  16. @ Robin,

    “But not sure if I would need it [the US passport] to still be valid to get my UK passport?”

    The UK passport application site mentions on the “Getting your First Adult Passport” page that you need “the passport you used to come into the UK,” but doesn’t say it has to be currently valid. So, sounds to me like like expired is fine — dunno if they mean the actual passport you used when you arrived 18 years ago, though. You could also ask them by e-mail, though.

    Also they have a 29 page info booklet, pdf, “Applying for a passport” at this link that covers a lot of stuff and might be of some use as you apply.

  17. Thanks pacifica777, I read that .pdf and it kinda implies that you can submit a cancelled passport but doesn’t really say specifically (or I didn’t see it anyway) about an expired one or any other details on that.

    My sense of logic would be that a valid one wouldn’t be required simply because it would not be a requirement to constantly maintain a foreign passport just to live in the UK but I will look into this for a definitive answer. If that’s the case then it’s only a matter of the timeframe of getting my UK passport vs when my US one will expire. Once I get my UK citizenship I’d have no reason to renew my US one, which is probably the preferable scenario.

  18. @Robin
    A couple of things to be aware of regarding the time frame for getting your UK passport. When doing your calculations about when you might have your UK passport, make sure you factor in some time for the citizenship ceremony and passport interview.

    When I became a UK citizen, you had to go through your citizenship ceremony before you could get your passport. The ceremonies are run by local councils and usually take place once a month. After that you have to have an interview to get your first adult passport for the UK. How quickly all this will happen will depend on availability of appointments for the citizenship ceremony and the passport interview. I think the whole process from taking my Life in the UK test to receiving my UK passport was about six or seven months.

    I imagine it would be okay to use an expired passport as part of your application. Mine was still valid when I applied for the UK passport, so it’s not something that was an issue for me at the time.

  19. Thanks Verity,

    Yeah, there’s the additional time for the ceremony and passport interview. I guess really the bottom line is that if my current US passport is valid when I apply for everything then I can think about renewing it (or not) after my application is in. Originally I was thinking I needed 6 months left on it to travel but have learned that’s not the case, so if I want to go to Spain or something over the summer it’s not a problem.

    So unless there’s a requirement that the US passport still be valid in order to get my UK passport, I could elect to simply not renew it.

    In any case I’d still have plenty of time over the summer to renew it if I must.

  20. Here’s my 2 bits on the UK/US thing. I strongly urge anyone with permanent residency in the UK to apply for UK citizenship ASAP and definitely before contemplating any move to other countries (the poster mentioned eventually living somewhere outside the UK). As a permanent resident, you risk having your residency revoked if you spend too much time outside the UK – a woman with almost 20 yrs residency has recently been refused a renewal on these grounds. Since the UK will be out of the EU, these residency rules will even more crucial. Both the US and UK acknowledge dual citizenship, and I believe it is possible to become UK without renouncing the US. Of course if you wish to renounce US, this is also an opportunity to do so. I was dual UK/US for decades before renouncing US a few years ago. I subsequently acquired citizenship in my country of residency, so am now dual UK/an EU country. Tread carefully.

  21. Hi allou,

    Thanks for your 2 bits 🙂 My top priority is getting my UK citizenship, that’s first and foremost. It’s high time I did after living here for so long. And it has also helped me define my near-term plans. I’m a Brit for all intents and purposes regardless of where I was born, the UK is where I belong in so many ways and I have an enduring affinity for it and it’s time I make it official, start doing things like voting (which you cannot do if you’re not a citizen). I own a flat here so my ties to the UK are pretty firm. I’m not going anywhere any time soon.

    I’ll just take this opportunity to say also that this is such a great forum, many thanks to everyone that has taken the time to add your thoughts on all this stuff 🙂

  22. Retroactive relinquishment??
    I became a citizen of Canada 2 years ago. Looking into giving up my US citizenship now and wondering: can I somehow request the CLN based on the act of obtaining Canadian citizenship? How do I go about it?
    If I do get the CLN this way, would it be effective retroactively? Meaning, would I be relieved of my US tax obligations as of the Canadian citizenship date in the past? Or would it be the CLN date? My head is spinning.

  24. On a slightly different subject, does anyone know if you would be treated differently, after relinquishing US citizenship, if you wanted to live in the US again for a while?

    Hypothetically, if I needed to go over there for 6 months to help my aging parents, would I be treated like any other British national or would they see that I had relinquished my US citizenship and view me as some sort of baddy 🙂

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