FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
@northernstar
Just Me’s great tutorial and a little confidence will get you tweeting in no time. Not knowing everything about it kept me from jumping in for awhile until I said to heck with it and just started one day. I still don’t know what a lot of stuff means, but I figure I’ll learn over time.
@badger
Michelle Obama’s almost evangelistic promotion of America though it’s students is absurd when backdropped with the current devastation many of those former students are experiencing at the hands of the current administration. Any missteps, you’re good will ambassador one day and public enemy the next.
@bubblebustin,
What I drew from Michelle Obama’s remarks is that the concept of the “citizen ambassador” is language/PR that the Whitehouse understands and desires to promote. Perhaps ACA, AARO (and even DA and RA) can continue to refer to that and the recent speeches by Michelle Obama as a lever. It and her other remarks about having a voice are in stark contrast to the actual treatment of US citizens abroad, the lack of interest from the Whitehouse to fulfill the 2008 campaign promises to those abroad and failure to support or promote the Maloney bill to modestly fund and establish a Presidential Commission to identify issues faced by USPs abroad, and the current lack of concern that we are being forced to expatriate in order to live a normal everyday life outside the US (where we were born or naturalized or inherited dual status) and more are facing denial of banking services (even the totally compliant).
Not only will the numbers of ‘citizen ambassadors’ dwindle after FATCA becomes better known, but the numbers of anti-ambassadors will rise. One does not have to be a US citizen to candidly point out to all and sundry in one’s non-US home country that the US is unethical, unjust, untrustworthy in its dealings with those that it claimed as children and as citizens. We are now ‘ambassadors’ whose dedicated message is that the US prefers to arrogantly and aggressively use ‘might is right’ and unilateral force and extortion to get its way internationally – even as applied to its own diaspora. No-one can trust a nation who aggressively persecutes its own diaspora.
More FATCA IGA dissembling from a CBA member – Scotiabank:
Ex.
“Is this all new?
No, this is not altogether new. Reporting of account activities to Canadian tax authorities has long been legally required at some level. As well, reporting regarding certain financial transactions has been required under the provisions and safeguards of the Canada-U.S. Tax Convention for years. The Canadian tax regulations related to FATCA simply build on these existing financial reporting structures by adding new types of data to the list of what must be reported”…..
Worth reading the entire thing to note the deliberate disingenuous wording.
After attending the Privacy Commissioner of Canada’s event last week, it is even more clear that PIPEDA and other privacy laws in Canada were already not up to the task of protecting personal privacy. The IGA is designed to override PIPEDA and any other Canadian laws which might prove to be an inconvenient obstacle.
So, think of the above, that the IGA is meant to trump all Canadian laws – ex. those regarding “privacy legislation and protection of client data”,
and parse the accuracy of, and claims made in this statement;
“Don’t you need my consent to share my information?
“Scotiabank has a policy of strict adherence to privacy legislation and protection of client data. Our response to Canadian tax regulations related to FATCA will be held to our standard of strict compliance with Canadian privacy laws.”………
Link for the document I quoted above:
http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/files/14/03/Fact-print-en.pdf?v3
Scotiabank ‘FATCA and Canadian Tax Regulations Overview’ Last
saved: 2014 ‐ 03 ‐ 20
Worth a read.
Maybe time to resurrect or recreate a CBA, IIAC and FI/NFFI page to list all these official FATCAllaborator statements as we find them?
@Pacifica or other monitors
Please give Just Me my email address..I will get hip and cool and learn to twitter. Does Michelle Obama have a twitter account?
@Badger thanks for all this info on Michelle in Obama.
Perhaps we all need to write to her .. I want to.. I have been thinking of writing her for a long time on FATCA This seems perfect timing. Maybe I can even get some of my Canadian friends to write to her.. Those that absolutely adore her.. The Obamas are very much liked among some of my friends.
What you have introduced, badger, is that the student “US ambassadors” encouraged to go abroad, as those immigrants knocking on the US door, are not provided, in full disclosure, their US tax and reporting responsibilities that go along with their movements from country A to country B.
Site says it updates this list, so watch for your country:
‘Cumulative List of Non-US Pension Funds Exempted by FATCA Intergovernmental Agreements
March 19, 2014′
http://www.groom.com/resources-743.html
@badger
This Scotiabank executive’s weasel words still don’t explain why one group will be singled out for this expanded reporting to the CRA. In fairness, it should be expanded to all Canadian taxpayers. Let’s not forget that Scotiabank jumped on to the FATCA bandwagon early on, spending $100M in startup costs – this cannot be viewed as folly on their part. If there’s any justice left in this world, their words will come back to haunt them one day.
@northernstar, I think that is a great idea – quoting her own public statements and underscoring for her how FATCA and FBARs and CBT combine to make it increasingly unlikely that there will be any US citizens abroad – whether for study or for anything else.
@calgary, you’re so right about the US not caring about the lack of any proactive ‘education’ of US citizens about the unique aspects of the US CBT and definition of ‘foreign’ finances – and young inexperienced students and new immigrants being the victims of CBT – because the US continues not to warn them. Honestly, by now, you’d think that if they were truly interested in ‘compliance’, they’d do something differently, but they haven’t. So we have to conclude that they just don’t care, or that they welcome the penalty revenue.
@bubblebustin,
“If there’s any justice left in this world, their words will come back to haunt them one day.”
Hope that is true for all the CBA banks and the IIAC FATCAllaborators. Certainly I think there will be people moving and closing their accounts as a result. And our role is to never let them get away with pretending that they actually fought FATCA – instead of cravenly lobbying Flaherty behind the backs of their accountholders and fellow Canadians. If they had actually spent significant money on resisting, I am sure they’d have highlighted that on their sites. Instead, they’ve taken the tact of saying that they’ve been “fighting it from the beginning”…
Here’s an article quoting the CBA; “Wrobel also warned anyone in Canada who even refused to confirm that they were connected with US could face their non-compliance reported to the IRS. – See more at: http://www.iexpats.com/canadian-banks-throw-towel-fatca-fight/#sthash.OnsNkWXg.dpuf”
And what happens if those who refuse to confirm whether or not they were “connected with the US” are actually legally only Canadians and not at all ‘US taxable persons’ in any way? Are Canadians with NO legal obligation to the US subject to the oversight of the IRS and laws of the US? I don’t think they’ll stay with the bank that makes them angry by demanding to know. Does Wrobel?
A poster in another IBS thread about credit unions being safe found this draft copy of the CRA FATCA Guidance. It’s not supposed to be public, so grab a copy now in case it disappears.
http://www.cucentral.ca/Documents/CRA%20Draft%20Guidance%20for%20Financial%20Institutions%20March%2006%202014%20%282%29.pdf
Fantastic find – congratulations to whoever found that! Should be a thread of its own?
We have not committed any crime in Canada. No-one has been charged or convicted of a crime in the US. Doesn’t it seem like a conspiracy against Canadian citizens and residents and accountholders when it gets down to this level of detail of deliberate silence and obfuscation?
Canadian citizens, taxpayers, voters and accountholders who actually legally OWN the accounts and assets are deliberately kept in the dark while political ‘representatives’, financial institutions, lobbyists, and the compliance industry willfully hoard all the information.
Small matter to them I guess, that those being kept in the dark are law abiding, taxpaying Canadian citizens and legal residents with LOCAL LEGAL accounts filled primarily with their post-tax CANADIAN wages. Who have not committed or been accused of a crime. The assets belong to us, not the FIs and not the politicians. And credit unions are supposed to be owned by their members.
So, where are our Charter and other rights?
Good idea, WhatAmI. It is saved on my computer in case it disappears. Thanks!
…and I will make a post of it, badger.
http://www.oslofreedomforum.com/
Anybody got anything good to tweet to the Oslo freedom forum? Tweets are shown on the front page of their site.
Human rights is their thing.
@OsloFF
The last 2 tweets are shown on the front page.
Frequency of tweets could make #fatca visible (until they start moderating, of course, but there is only a month til their conference)
Tweet something really good and they might invite you.
It was @J Timorov who posted in the thread “Most Canadian Credit Unions a Safe Place?” that the draft could be found by using the CUCC web site’s search box. I found it and posted the link in that thread to make it easier for people to find. When there was no notice in this thread, I made the post here.
The final won’t be made public until “sometime in May”. That’s too close to June 30 for me. Even with the credit unions and banks presumably having access to this draft document I fear that very few FIs will be able to explain their reporting procedures until after June 30. With that in mind, at least a couple of us are opening new accounts at some credit unions that look to be potential candidates for non-reporting status.
Some FIs have already started asking people opening new accounts about their “US tax status”.
http://moneypoliticstransparency.org/
ok, which criminal organization has started up this one? Tax Justice Network? George Soros? Another union?
above Money, Politics and Transparency
As awareness of the links between money, politics, policy and corruption grow, so will the demand for political finance transparency. To contribute to the debate and development of sound transparency politics, Money, Politics and Transparency will offer a set of draft political finance transparency norms, co-created in a transparent fashion by global stakeholders. Building consensus around strong political finance transparency norms will provide advocates, legislators and regulators with a baseline to which they can compare their own countries’ political finance transparency regime and make improvements to it. Stay tuned for more on the creation of political finance transparency norms.
http://www.carriermanagement.com/news/2014/03/24/120266.htm
‘IRS Expects ‘Glitches’ with FATCA Tax Law on Offshore Accounts’
March 24, 2014
“A new U.S. anti-tax evasion law, set to take effect on July 1, will encounter “inevitable glitches,” said the head of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service on Monday, adding that the IRS will be sympathetic to banks doing their best to comply.”..
Right. The IRS admits in public that there will be “inevitable glitches”, and we and they know that there is no recourse built in to FATCA, or the FATCA IGA signed by the Harper government.The FATCA spokesperson for Canada – who is now “Ex. Finance Minister Flaherty” steps down, (but not until delivering a choice bit of disingenuous and cowardly misdirection – denying the equality, significance, and salience (Master Nationality) of the Canadian citizenship status of his fellow Canadians (that he was sworn to serve and protect) by saying; ..”……..This [CBT] creates unique challenges for U.S. citizens who reside in other countries – especially Canada. However, as these are U.S. laws that apply to U.S. citizens, they can only be addressed by the U.S. government – not Canada. In that regard, I would encourage U.S. citizens in Canada to share their concerns with the U.S. government.” (See his carefully crafted to mislead statement to CARP http://www.carp.ca/2014/02/22/federal-minister-finances-message-carp-members-canada-won-privacy-protection-exemptions-relief-fatca/#sthash.zRcudTlC.dpuf..”.)
Consider again that line: “US citizens in Canada” which he flings in the face of Canadians who are every bit as Canadian as he thinks he is. They were born or naturalized or of Canadian parents, and resident on Canadian soil – whose taxes are good enough for the CRA to collect and for the Harper government to spend, but when the inevitable problems start, we’re cut loose, deemed only secondclass ‘US citizens in Canada’ – not Canadians. So we’re advised to grapple with the IRS on our own.
Tell me, what is the point of even a pseudo ‘treaty’ if the government who negotiated it walks away and leaves their citizen individuals bound by it – extraterritorially held in the grip of a foreign country – who admits that the foreign law will contain inevitable glitches – which translate to injuries for Canadian taxpayers and accountholders? What makes Flaherty think that his responsibilty for FATCA ended when it was signed?
@ All
I’ve got an e-mail ready to send to Joe Oliver. Should I use his MP address (Joe.Oliver@parl.gc.ca) or is there another one at the Dept. of Finance where it might have a better chance of reaching him? I will, of course, be doing a cc to some others like Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Stephen Harper and whoever else anyone might suggest.
http://bancdelasteroideb612.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/25-may-2014-fatca-meeting-in-the-swedish-parliament-riksdag/
25 May 2014 FATCA Meeting in the Swedish Parliament Riksdag
Sweden meets today to accept US law to govern taxation of Swedish citizens living in Sweden, today at 11 am. If not, USA will apply 30% economic sanctions upon Swedish banks. Most affected are those persons such as Leonore Lillian Maria, whose parents forced them to be Born in the USA. There will not be discussions about any such persons, as the Obama administration has strictly instructed Sweden that those issues will not be discussed. Only the banking association and th…e American accounting firms will be present (KPMG, PWC, osv) and participate as demanded by the administration of President Barack Obama. After the meeting, the media will inform you that Sweden has discussed tax evasion (which is, uh, by the way, people nearly like Leonore Lillian Maria, except that they have little money, they are not rich, do not hire expensive accountants, and have not moved or moved back to Sweden in order to avoid taxation.
Please check your birth documents to see if you might be a US person. If you are suspected to have a joint bank account with someone suspected to be American, you will be reported to the IRS. If you are a Swede suspected of having one American parent, you will be reported to the IRS. If your Swedish business partner is suspected of being American, you will be reported to the IRS. If your Swedish corporation is suspected of having an accounts payable clerk who is American, the corporation will be reported to the IRS. If you are suspected of having a US work visa (Green card), you will be reported. If you are suspected of having had a US Green card in the last 10 years, and you did not file form I-407, you will be reported. If you are suspected of having had a US address or US telephone number connected to your bank account, you will be reported. The risk of penalties for not reporting such persons is quite high, so the banks are likely to simply suspect everyone of harboring a US person, hence they can just as well report ALL of their Swedish bank customers to the IRS.
….
@badger
Glitches = global Obamacare style cockup?
IRS not ready for FATCA:
IRS Budget Crunch Limiting Use of Foreign Government Data
So after arm-twisting on a global scale, imposing massive costs on non-US banks, banking services denied for expats and millions of sleepless nights, the US is just going to store the info. One suspects the same thing has been happening with the FBARs for many years. Next time, Koskinen, how about you do your “learning curve” first before you trouble the rest of the world.
@Mark Twain says
March 24, 2014 at 5:03 pm
http://www.oslofreedomforum.com/
Ok, I sent @OsloFF a tweet…
#FATCA is one of the most arrogant, imperialist, racist and anti human rights law that the US gov has imposed in past couple decades
@Johnson, thanks.
re; ““As with any major new initiative, we expect a learning curve — for the IRS as well as for everyone affected.””
Right.
Except that FATCA failures have significant life altering consequences and sanctions (confiscatory penalties, extension of statute of limitations, etc.) for “everyone affected” – particularly if they are ordinary taxpayers and accountholders with little access to expert advice and representation, and not so much for the IRS who is the source, the implementer, the designer and the enforcer of FATCA. “Everyone affected” is the rest of the globe, while the IRS and Treasury think that with all that is at stake for all of those FORCED and EXTORTED to participate, it is acceptable to expect a ‘learning curve’ from the enforcers who created, maintain and will apply the threat.
And FATCA has no built in method for recourse in the event of errors. And neither do the IGAs.
The IRS and Treasury ignored the report by the GAO – a US government dept. who said that even just the 8938 FATCA form and reporting for individuals was confusing, duplicative, etc. See: http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-403
‘Reporting Foreign Accounts to IRS:
Extent of Duplication Not Currently Known, but Requirements Can Be Clarified’
GAO-12-403: Published: Feb 28, 2012. Publicly Released: Mar 29, 2012.
And the IRS/Treasury is still not finished some of the FATCA forms, guidance, etc. – yet insists that everyone else meet their deadlines and ‘obligations’.
What arrogance and hubris. One can only hope that indeed “pride goeth before a fall……”. And that they don’t drag everyone else down with them.
SHAMEFUL.
EXTREMELY SHAMEFUL INDEED !