FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
@WhatAmI
Just received info from Epargne Placement Québec that the IGA changes nothing for them. They are part of a government ministry and not subject to FATCA reporting. Note that they are basically an online substitute for printed certificates on Quebec government bonds, although they do offer a savings account. They do not offer chequing accounts. They offer services only to Quebec residents. So I suppose their exemption arises not only from being part of a government institution but also as a result of the client resident qualities pointed out above by WhatAmI.
So I guess any other provincial institution working in the same manner is exempt.
What WhatAmI brought up might allow some credit unions with total accounts above $175 million to be exempt if they limit their accounts to customers resident in Canada only. I know that Quebec’s Desjardins wouldn’t qualify what with their snowbirder’s accounts and Florida bank.
Does anyone know of a Canadian residents only credit union? It would be worthwhile writing to them for their opinion on whay WhatAmI found in the IGA.
There is an opportunity to comment to the OECD on this post:
http://oecdinsights.org/2014/02/13/fatca-fat-cats-and-tax/
@ Petit Suisse,
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca/comment-page-86/#comment-1099070
I think it is worth taking a look at this CU type organization from the Province of Alberta and contacting them for more information – they may fit the definition of a FATCA exempt financial institution:
Alberta Treasury Branches (ATB Financial) http://www.atb.com/about/Pages/default.aspx
“Alberta Treasury Branches (ATB Financial) is a provincial corporation and is for all purposes an agent of the Crown in the right of Alberta.”
Who to Contact – Inquiries and Complaints
Contact the ATB Customer Service Centre at 1-800-332-8383, or the Manager, Service Excellence area at 780-408-7210, or visit the ATB Financial website.
There perhaps is also a version in Saskatchewan or Manitoba (originally a farmer’s or agricultural co-op and owned by the province of Saskatchewan or Manitoba?) but I couldn’t find the conversation here at IBS where we talked about it long ago.
I see this https://www.fcc-fac.ca/en/we-finance.html – for agriculture loans, but not for basic banking.
It might be worth looking through this list of crown corporations for some quasi-banking type opportunities: http://canada.ca/en/gov/dept/index.html?utm_medium=decommissioned+site&utm_campaign=Canada+Site+Redirect+Tracking&utm_source=canada.gc.ca/depts/major/depind-eng.html&utm_content=Launch+Tracking and federal depts and agencies http://canada.ca/en/gov/dept/index.html?utm_medium=decommissioned+site&utm_campaign=Canada+Site+Redirect+Tracking&utm_source=canada.gc.ca/depts/major/depind-eng.html&utm_content=Launch+Tracking
Need to also look for equivalent lists for provinces – to find other equivalents of Alberta’s Alberta Treasury Branches (ATB Financial) if they exist.
Has this article been posted at IBS before?
http://www.pennstatelawreview.org/the-forum/a-quick-glance-at-fatca-and-the-tragedy-of-double-taxation/
‘A Quick Glance at FATCA and the Tragedy of Double Taxation’ Posted Feb. 7, 2014
“Since 2013, upwards of 1,800 U.S. citizens residing overseas have chosen to renounce their U.S. citizenship in the face of new tax laws and disclosure requirements such as FATCA.”
….”U.S. citizens living and working outside of the United States are required to file an income tax return first in the jurisdiction in which they are a resident and then another in the United States. Although foreign taxes paid to foreign jurisdictions are creditable against U.S. taxes owed, the United States does not recognize all types of foreign taxes. For example, “wealth taxes” and “value added taxes,” which are commonly used in Europe in lieu of income tax, are not considered qualified foreign tax credits.
Unfortunately, Congress has not attempted to harmonize these inconsistencies. Instead, Congress has made reporting and filing obligations for U.S. citizens living overseas more strenuous, expensive, and increasingly confusing….”
– Giancarlo Serrato
@ Badger, I put it in the “Media and Blog Articles” list the other day. But it’s worth having it on this thread too, which it’s particularly relevant to. So, thanks — and thanks for everything you’ve been discovering and commenting on for us
I’ve been thinking about moving some of my savings to Implicity’s on-line bank because their savings account pays 1.90%. No fees. It is a division of a credit union, so I had an online chat with a rep:
I think they may well qualify for Annex II Section III A. I wish an expert would weigh in on this section before I get my hopes up sky high.
@WhatAmI
this is very interesting. I wonder if Canadian Tire Banking is like Implicity Financial
I’m in the mode of chasing better interest rates, so I wouldn’t be looking at Canadian Tire. Also, according to this comparison site, it’s not listed as a credit union. Obviously one would research it directly on the CT site though:
http://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/
Sorry, the “CU” designation in the chart I gave a link to may be to do with the insurance (CDIC or CU), not actual credit union status.
@northernstar
Canadian Tire Financial:
AcceleRate Financial
When I first read Annex 2 Section III, I didn’t think there would be many banks or credit unions who already deny accounts to non-Canadian residents. It turns out they are easy to find (except the 4 banks that I deal with…).
People’s Trust: (I don’t like the phrase “at this time” – they may open it up later?)
Achieva Financial:
Hubert Financial:
Canadian Direct FInancial:
Demonicrits Abroad and their lackey from Chile are on a twit fest for #fatca
Democrats Abroad @DemsAbroad · Feb 12
#FATCA reforms have already provided and will continue to provide urgent relief to overseas Americans unintentionally impacted by the law.
Democrats Abroad @DemsAbroad · Feb 12
The #FATCA discussions that Democrats Abroad are having with regulators at the IRS and Treasury are focussed on reforms to the regulations.
Democrats Abroad @DemsAbroad · Feb 12
It’s clear a global model for catching big time tax cheats is coming; #FATCA is part of that. https://www.democratsabroad.org/group/fbarfatca/fbarfatca-task-force-page-updated …
Democrats Abroad @DemsAbroad · Feb 12
In the last months a repeal effort has been launched that, if successful, will destroy #FATCA entirely. https://www.democratsabroad.org/group/fbarfatca/fbarfatca-task-force-page-updated …
Democrats Abroad @DemsAbroad · Feb 12
Fortunately for overseas Americans, we can address the unintended adverse consequences of #FATCA through reforms. https://www.democratsabroad.org/group/fbarfatca/fbarfatca-task-force-page-updated …
dEMOcrats Abroad @DemsAbroad · Feb 12
Democrats Abroad supports strong policy that discourages and apprehends tax cheats. #FATCA
@Mark Twain
I was one of those who loved Obama..when he was running and elected. My son lived around the corner from Dems Abroad on BO’s inauguration. There was an ad in the newspaper they were having a party to celebrate.. I went. Had my picture taken with a life size cardboard cutout of Obama. I signed up for their emails. and hat is how I found out about FATCA.
On May 10, 2012 I went to a FATCA information meeting at Yorkdale in Toronto. The room was packed. and the Dems Abroad brought along the Tax vultures. These vultures put the fear in all of us. quoting a $1000 or more for each year needed to comply to be up to date. It was horrifying . but at least I got to know what is what and found IBS about a year later. And here I today I went for my CLN request last July 2013. Still waiting. and Dems Abroad is still making nice with the US government. Why don’t they say change to RBT and there would be no problems. I saw the light when I went to that meeting.. I do not want to be an American anymore.
Subject : Achieva financial
Just went to their site and noticed they offer chequing services. Has anyone asked them about FATCA status?
Here is a comparison chart of the services offered by credit unions and banks that have high-interest savings accounts.
http://www.highinterestsavings.ca/comparison-of-services-offered-by-high-interest-savings-banks/
I see an omission for Implicity. They do have checking privileges with their high-interest savings accounts. The first 8 cheques are free, after that, not.
I just sent lengthy emails to both Implicity and Achieva asking about their FATCA plans. I pointed out Annex 2 which suggests that they may be deemed compliant and have non-reporting status due to their existing restrictions requiring Canadian residency.
I will report back with any responses I get.
About Achieva, Cambrian and Desjardins :
@WhatAmI
Wow, WhatAmI you’re really getting a lot of work done on the FATCA status of credit unions. Un grand merci!
I also just wrote Achieva as well as Cambrian, since I suppose Achieva’s status depends on Cambrian’s, what with it being owned by them. Getting more than one message may make them realize this is serious enough to come up with a reply.
As for Desjardins, since I already knew from their Website that they will be reporting account info, I wrote them a few days ago asking if :
1. they intended to actively seek out US person info on pre-existing accounts
2. whether they intended to respect the $50000 threshold indicated in the IGA
I received an answer yesterday saying they were still checking (the IGA, I presume).
My questions to Desjardins basically were to get some idea of the risk to someone who only has a very small chequing account for monthly essentials like paying the bills, but no savings or investment accounts. I feel that this could be the case of many of their FATCA menaced members.
I will post any further info I receive.
I’ve received replies from Implicity and Achieva.
Implicity says the CRA is expected to release a guidance document by the end of the month. I wonder if it will be public?
Implicity doesn’t believe they’ll have a non-reporting status since they will likely report as one entity with their parent Entegra Credit Union, and Entegra allows for non-Canadian resident accounts.
The Achieva reply had little detail other that it’s being reviewed. However, I see that their parent company Cambrian Credit Union only allows accounts for Manitoba residents. So, there could be a chance here (my guess).
AcceleRate’s parent company is Crosstown Civic Credit Union. I can’t find any mention of residency requirements on Crosstown’s website. I’ve sent an email to AcceleRate just now.
@WhatAmI
I got the same answers from Achieva, as well as their parent Cambrian. The are reviewing the situation with Credit Union Central.
Cambrian suggested I check with CRA…as if I could talk with someone knowledgeable there…but that did inspire me to go back to CRA’s FAQ page where I had only read the part aimed at individual account holders. There is also a section aimed at the institutions and I found something under question 2 that seems to clarify the exceptions mentionned in the IGA:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/fq-eng.html#q3
A partial exemption is available for a Canadian financial institution if it is not part of a multinational group (i.e., it is not related to any entities organized outside of Canada) and at least 98 percent of its financial accounts are held by Canadian residents. These financial institutions will not be obliged to apply due diligence or report on accounts held by individuals who are Canadian residents.
Could this be good news?
@Petit
Looks promising to me. There is also the following on the same page. Note the phrase “may be asked”. I guess that’s where we all figure the banks will go into CYA mode and over search and over report.
Ha! We’ve been speculating about this for 2 years now:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/fq-eng.html#q2-6
@WhatAmI
Worth noting that ‘will not be required to ask’ doesn’t mean they won’t ask anyway. At least one UK financial institution already asks directly for country of birth, even though the IGA doesn’t require it to. Others may follow suit.
Thanks for the ideas, guys
If I had as much material to print money at my Banc as there is FATCA material available to print text, I’d be a millionaire. Er, uh, I’d be a rich expatriate tax evader!
http://bancdelasteroideb612.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/the-twits-at-play/
A record of the propaganda of Demonicrits Abroad!
Hi all, I’m to marry a US resident, and we recently discovered this FATCA nightmare. We consulted with 2 lawyers: one just repeated the IRS script and left us COMPLETELY TERRIFIED. His only unreported thing an offshore account with around $45,000 in it, which is not even earned income but money that was gifted by a relative (the only income is from the interests, which he didn’t know had to be reported since the bank is in the country where he was born). This lawyer suggested the OVDI and wanted to charge an obscene amount of money to do this. The other lawyer we consulted suggested a quiet voluntary disclosure, which sounds more reasonable but we’ve been reading so much online against it we don’t even know what the hell to do. We are still consumed by fear, we feel trapped, oppressed, mentally drained, and pretty much hopeless. It feels like David vs. Goliath. We do not make a lot of money and this could ruin us. I read somewhere that offshore banks only have to report accounts with balances starting at $50,000, yet I’m not sure if this is still true, or if they will report any US national account even if the balance is $1. Regardless, we want to avoid penalties, conviction, etc and we just don’t know what’s best.
@libertad
Welcome to IBS…you found a place where you can get accurate good information with kindness and care. The first thing we advise all newcomers is do nothing until you know what is best for your. Brockers are from many countries but IBS was started 2 years ago in Canada. I found it in 2013.. It has the best information . Look on the side bar for help in learning
check this link that tells where there are fact finding sessions we are doing. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/14/solving-the-problems-of-u-s-citizenship-information-sessions/comment-page-14/#comment-1106862
If you are near one, go to one and you can ask questions and meet others like you.
Explore this blog and you will find answers. Do not sign up with any tax guys yet. See what your options are. There many of us that have been here since day one and will help. Just remember being an American person is many types. We are not one size fits all. Some want to retain their US citizenship and some do not. Read , and ask questions. Let us know the circumstances. When you say your fiancee is a resident, than he is not a citizen of where you are?
@all
I must add a correction I DID NOT FOUND OR START IBS.. I meant to type IT was founded. SORRY! I must really read my my comments before pressing entering. One letter makes a big difference , EH? Petros is one of the original founders and Calgary411, Blaze and Noble Dreamer. I know there are others but can not be sure who.
Hmm. we should put up a wall of founders post… to honor those who worked so hard to help us fight FATCA. You all deserve this honor.