FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
Been following and again…thank you everyone. @Nick and I are in pretty much the same situation here.
I believe I took my oath when I was applying for a SIN Card in 1994. I was under 18 which means, technically it did not count right?
I have not exercised any sort of US Citizenship…I have only a Canadian passport- though many times the American guards tell me I need a US one, I tell them no, I don’t and I go in. I cross a number of times a year being that I live in close proximity to the border.
My question is, if they back-date (sorry I am just trying to get a grip on this terminology)- what will they be taxing me on- this is where I am not clear. I have no money- really we don’t. We have a mortgage but I keep seeing numbers like 10,000/ 50,000- and I have no where near that. Sad but true. So what exactly are they trying to tax me on? Or are they going to hit me with a peanalty for not filing.
To clarify, I was born in the US to Canadian parents. We returned to Canada in 1979, I was 4 months old. When I needed a SIN card for work at 16 I recieved a Canadian Citizenship card, took the oath, and thought this was behind me as I swore to renounce all other citizenships.
What now?
@Nick and Tdott
Nick, I sent you Tdott’s e-mail address. Thanks very much, Tdott.
@tdott, I think your info regarding QD is wrong: the statute of limitation on tax returns is 3 years. Even when you do a QD, you don’t have to file for more. In fact, they can’t do anything with it.
So it is the same as Streamlined. But you’re right in saying that streamlined is ‘safer’, given what the IRS has been saying about QDs.
@noone
I was under the impression that SOL only comes into play once you have filed and if you haven’t filed then there is no SOL.
Can anyone provide a (more-or-less) definitive answer?
There’s no SOL if you’ve never filed US tax before.
@rob, re; “…I have a very bad feeling about the sudden very comprehensive coverage the CBC is giving to fatca. Has anyone considered that it maybe as a result of a government directive to the CBC to barrage the public on behalf of the IRS and a pending IGA? …”..
I had that bad feeling too. Part of me knows that the more of the > 1 million affected in Canada are alerted and angry, and barrage their MPs and Minister Flaherty, and complain to their banks (and switch to credit unions in protest if they can), the better. The more commotion, the bigger the black eye for the US and the FATCA-natics and the FATCA-lobbyist-collaborators (CBA, IIAC, etc.).
We know that it is possible and perhaps anticipated that the Harper government’s Ministry of Finance may plan to sign on to a FATCA IGA and delay any public notice. We know for certain that they do not intend any parliamentary or public debate. This is the only public notice they have given http://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/notices/unitedstates-etatsunis-eng.asp – and it appeared quietly and stealthily 2012-11-08 in a place no average Canadian citizen, taxpayer and voter would have thought to look – (except that thankfully ) one of us was!
Everyone, feel free to bombard the Ministry of Finance with your comments and oppostion to FATCA (I like to call it the FEED AMERICA by TAXING CANADIAN ASSETS act, or FUND AMERICA: TAKE CANADIAN ASSETS act):
Persons wishing to offer additional comments concerning the negotiations may send their views to:
Department of Finance
17th Floor, East Tower
140 O’Connor Street
Ottawa, Canada
K1A 0G5
RE:
“Negotiation of an Information Exchange Agreement with the United States” (FATCA)
November 8, 2012
Negotiations are being held between Canada and the United States on an agreement to improve cross-border tax compliance through enhanced information exchange under the Canada-United States Tax Convention, including information exchange in support of the provisions enacted by the United States commonly known as the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).
The purpose of this bulletin is to inform persons whose interests are affected by the provisions of FATCA that the Government is actively seeking a solution to issues raised by such provisions. The Government of Canada has received input from many individuals and groups in relation to the implications of FATCA.
Persons wishing to offer additional comments concerning the negotiations may send their views to:
Department of Finance
17th Floor, East Tower
140 O’Connor Street
Ottawa, Canada
K1A 0G5
For further information contact:
Kevin Shoom
Business Income Tax Division
613-992-2980
ALSO,
cc to your MP http://www.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParliament/MainMPsCompleteList.aspx and any other MP you can think of,
including the NDP Shadow Cabinet’s Murray Rankin http://murrayrankin.ndp.ca/more-contact http://www.ndp.ca/shadow-cabinet ,
Green Party Leader Elizabeth May http://www.greenparty.ca/contact ,
and
Liberal Party Scott Brison and Ted Hsu
They have all been asking questions and pointing fingers at FATCA – particularly the very early efforts by the NDP (MP Mai http://hoangmai.ndp.ca/ (Questions in Parliament http://openparliament.ca/debates/2012/3/14/hoang-mai-1/ ) plus joint letter from the NDP BC Caucus and efforts by other individual NDP MPs across Canada http://andysundberg.weebly.com/1/post/2012/04/canadian-mp-trying-to-help-expats-fight-fatca.html ) and Green Party Elizabeth May – who proactively got the FOI for the letter from Constitutional scholar and lawyer Peter Hogg to the Finance Ministry and posted it for all to see on the Greens website http://www.greenparty.ca/media-release/2013-03-13/implementation-fatca-likely-unconstitutional-says-leading-constitutional-ex . Lately, there are the efforts of Liberals Ted Hsu http://www.tedhsu.ca/contact.html (Kingston) and Scott Brison http://www.brison.ca/contact.asp . There were also objections to the aggressive extraterritorial US incursions by MP Ralph Goodale http://openparliament.ca/debates/2011/9/30/ralph-goodale-1/only/ .
This is not an exhaustive list, as some are no longer MPs (ex. the excellent Denise Savoie who stepped down for health reasons, but who wrote to Obama in protest http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/04/23/letter-from-mp-denise-savoie-to-president-obama-4-2/ and who had a great FATCA section on her website http://andysundberg.weebly.com/1/post/2012/04/canadian-mp-trying-to-help-expats-fight-fatca.html ).
You can search this site to see more information about who asked questions in Parliament re FATCA, FBAR, and other related queries about US taxes and what was said. For example:
http://openparliament.ca/search/?q=fatca
http://openparliament.ca/search/?q=fbar
http://openparliament.ca/search/?q=IRS+AND+canadians+AND+tax*
@ badger
Great resource for the newbies coming here … and me too. I’ll do some more e-mailing but my MP is out — I mean really out — his seat is vacant and probably his office is too. I love that FUND AMERICA by TAKING CANADIAN ASSETS.
@Badger…
You gave me an opening for a GREAT tweet… 🙂
https://twitter.com/FATCA_Fallout/status/423551041888468992
@tdott Thanks, I will contact you directly.
Does anyone know of a good reason NOT to do the streamlined thing (assuming one has paid all taxes to the CRA, doesn’t have major assets and does not fall into any of the “high risk” categories described by the IRS)? In other words, given this FATCA nonsense, why wouldn’t someone in my shoes go this route? (other than simple moral objections, which I do have).
@Nick, I know you want this past you and forget about it, but it seems like you’re rushing. Take your time to pick the right option. If the relinquishment might work for you, why not give it a try?
@Nick, noone is right. If you can relinquish that may be a better route. It *may* even get you out of having to have to become tax compliant, depending on your circumstances.
@tdott @no one That is what I intend to try first, but I am just trying to get a sense of my options to make the most informed decisions possible. That is why I am hoping for some feedback on whether there is any good reason for someone in my case not to do the streamlined thing.
@Nick,
I don’t recall hearing anybody getting hurt by it, but you never hear anything back from the IRS and the program is only 1.5 years old. There are some strange questions on the Questionnaire. Roy Berg wrote a review early on. For example, why do they ask if you have received an inheritance?
I have a friend, a housewife who never worked full-time, do the streamlined thing.
My 90-yr-old mother renounced in December and will do it.
My sister and I will both do it if our relinquishment claims are refused.
@JUST ME: fatca = Firetrucking All The Canadian Americans
Can someone please explain form 8840.
Someone directed me to a question in Costco magazine (of all places) regarding this issue and they recommended to file this form every year.
I read the form, it scared me a bit, and now I am here asking questions 🙂
Thanks
@Me
Here’s a good resource for the 8840.
http://www.advisor.ca/tax/tax-news/residency-rules-snowbirds-need-to-know-65336/2
@Me
The last one seems to be missing some information. Try this one:
http://www.agtax.ca/canada-us-tax/the-closer-connecton-exception-and-substantial-presence-test/
Are you a US citizen?
@bubblebustin
Technically I guess yes I am a US Citizen (according to FACTA and the US Government). Born in the US to Canadian parents, returned to Canada when I was 4 months. Took my oath when I was 16 in 1994. Never had a US passport or applied for one. Pay taxes on time every year to CRA.
I’m worried about being charged penalties, everything. Just looking for info and following here and waiting to see what is best for me.
@Me
You are already a US taxpayer. You don’t have to worry about becoming one by staying too long in the US.
FYI, you may have become a Canadian citizen at birth, when the Citizenship Act changed in 2009. You may want to look at your ability to relinquish US citizenship, if that’s what you’d like to do. There are others here who know more about that than I do though.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules_2009.asp
Canadian citizens still protected from IRS tax collection and penalties, in Canada
Depending on whether one speaks of the December IRS announcement of a requirement for filing back six years, or the OVDI standard of eight years, any Canadian resident who was or became a Canadian citizen prior to 2006 or 2004, respectively, has the option of telling the IRS to jump off a very tall cliff, with respect to tax filing (including FBARs, and Form 8854 with respect to expatriated Americans), as long as that resident is prepared never to cross the US border again. The IRS has no jurisdiction on Canadian soil, it can only apply to Canada to collect tax claims on its behalf, under the provisions and limitations of the Canada-US Tax Treaty. That includes Article XXVI A mentioned above and in Flaherty’s letter to me.
I appreciate that some people feel they have to be able to cross the US border, either for family or business reasons. However, I strongly suggest anyone who is concerned about the costs, both financial and moral, of complying with IRS extortion, seriously consider the option of refusing to comply with IRS demands and not crossing the border again. Yes this may have a down-side for you, but what is the trade-off in terms of costs to you, your family, and your retirement if you comply with the IRS?
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/02/13/3200/
Use your driver license and SIN number to open bank account
New brokerage accounts may be more difficult.
Do not own US assets
@GeorgeIII
I believe that what the US government is doing to its citizens is immoral, as they would surely think it was if another country did this to their citizens, but I don’t think paying US taxes is costing me morally.
Mostly I am concerned with being made to pay penalties for not filing and being taxed currently…which as we all know is unjust, not fair, on and on…
@me
Can you go to any of the info meetings planned?
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/14/solving-the-problems-of-u-s-citizenship-information-sessions/
Me if you do not cross the border the USA can not touch you. Do not own US assets.
read the thread I forgot quote line I did not write it.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/02/13/3200/
if you go to the meeting you are no longer anonymous. Under FATCA bank representative are criminally responsible for not indicating an American,
Wait until IGA is signed to see what it says.
bubblebustin says
January 16, 2014 at 6:19 pm
“@GeorgeIII
I believe that what the US government is doing to its citizens is immoral, as they would surely think it was if another country did this to their citizens, but I don’t think paying US taxes is costing me morally.”
I was showing “me” that the IRS can not touch Canadian in Canada and telling him not to us his passport at financial institution because of US birth place. I am not certain what your comments are about.
Me the courts will not collect
“Thus, a claim of a foreign state to collect taxes owed to it made directly or indirectly will not be recognized by the courts of this country.”
http://uniset.ca/other/cs6/68OR2d379.html