Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

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FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two

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Please ask your questions here about FATCA.

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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well.  See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.

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3,498 thoughts on “FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two”

  1. @all
    So I went for my CLN request n July and it may take into the new year…Hmmm. The banks may not be asking about APs until July . I might have it by then. If I am refused. I figure I can still say I am an AP. I will ensure I have less than 50k , a lot less in savings and just have my RRSPs, which I been told by those on Brock that they are safe. I presume turning some into RRIFs would be safe too.

    One could invest in art. Or prepay their funeral expenses. or prepay holiday expenses. Invest in themselves in going back to college, learning a skill.
    Anything than letting the IRS get my money I and my husband earned in Canada and Canada only. .

  2. The Treasurer: Feeling the Force of FATCA

    What types of entities are likely to be classified as FFIs?

    There are five categories of FFIs under FATCA: depository institutions; custodial institutions; investment entities; insurance companies or holding companies of insurance companies that issue cash value insurance or annuity contracts; and holding companies and treasury centres of groups that include another financial entity. If a non-US entity falls within at least one of these categories and no exception applies, it will be an in-scope entity as an FFI and thus will be subject to FATCA requirements on account identification, reporting, etc.
    …
    Finally – and very importantly – holding companies and treasury centres that are part of an expanded affiliated group (EAG) including another FFI (or an insurance company, regardless of whether it constitutes an FFI under the above definitions) are also treated as FFIs. Loosely speaking, an EAG is a group of entities linked by common control in the form of more than 50% vote and value. The rules do not require the holding company to have a direct shareholding in an FFI – the mere fact that the holding company is part of an EAG containing at least one FFI is sufficient to bring the holding company into scope. Likewise, a treasury centre may be treated as an FFI if it enters into investment, financing or hedging transactions with or for any members of its EAG (even non-FFIs), if the EAG contains at least one FFI.

  3. @Atticusincanada
    Atticusincanada, I notice you have memtionned your Canadian spouse’s refusal to have data sent to the IRS as a major reason for your decisions.

    I am confused, because I have been told more than once that having a US spouse does not make an account reportable under FATCA. Was your worry concerning joint accounts?

  4. @northernstar, I think you will be fine. No point in making it easy for the banks. Even without the CLN in hand, you are NOT a USP anymore. Even if the CLN is the only accepted proof of not being one.

  7. @Calagary411

    Regarding: The Treasurer: Feeling the Force of FATCA

    I hate reading articles by KPMG, the King of the FCC. 🙂

    @Mark…

    Thanks for posting that infowars video. This is a HOT issue in NZ, and the wikileaks release got a lot of attention. The strong opposition to TPP is why I try to link FATCA to it, as it crosses partisan lines….

    It is, like FATCA, and Anti-sovereignty agreement.

    TPP is also like drone issue, where conservatives and progressives can join hands in opposition. Who would of thought you would see an Alex Jones and Representative Grayson on the same side this TPP issue, but then who would have thought you would have had so many progressives standing with Senator Rand Paul on his drone filibuster?

  8. Subject : Canadian snowbirders

    I don’t recall seeing any messages from snowbirders on IBS. I have the feeling there may be a sudden flood of questions as more of them become aware of the danger they are in. I get the impression that some of them may wind up being officially resident of both the US and Canada for tax purposes because of different rules calculating their resident days. And this could complicate claiming protection from collection under the tax treaty.

    If they give their American address to their Canadian banks for the period they spend in the US each year, will they become FATCA reportable?

    Could they wind up being as numerous as the US born caught up in this mess?

  10. @Old & Simple

    A US address may in fact indicate to the bank that the customer may be a USP. The customer will likely have to provide a form 8840 – Closer Connection Exemption Statement for Aliens, or have to prove a negative, that they didn’t stay long enough in the US to meet the substantial presence test – after he proves he’s not a US citizen or green card holder.

  11. There are lots of UK Snowbirders at my parents locale, and those I talked to weren’t interested in hearing anything they didn’t already believe in. Some are said to travel back every 90 days to stamp in to UK, and some spend 179 days each year.

  12. @Mark Twain

    I think that these UK snow birders who may be travelling to the US for 179 days a year will be in for a nasty surprise soon…

  13. A little practical example of the value of posting comments. Never assume that the other professional already knows what you know!

    New “Inside Info” On FATCA And The Use of Your Bank Information

    We truly appreciate our readers, particular those overseas who frequently call or email us with comments and suggestions. Last week we posted a piece called “How Safe is Your FATCA Data With the IRS? Not Very!” Since then we have received two comments*, one of which provided the impetus for today’s post.

  14. Bravo, Just Me. Thanks for all of the places you find for your informative comments to educate and change minds on this.

  16. I posted this on the FBAR and US tax thread, but am also putting it here for visibility. While the architects of FATCA are pushing their ‘might makes right’ agenda on the entire globe, yet another report flags for them the problems with complexities that make ‘US tax compliance’ by those living ‘abroad’ (who have reported and paid up in full to the countries where they actually live, are also citizens, and may have been born – outside the US ) full of pitfalls for the unwary.

    See the latest recommendations made by US tax law professionals of the American Bar Association, urging reform of several of the glaring inequities and injustices of the US tax reporting and taxation system as applied to ‘international’ individuals abroad http://meetings.abanet.org/webupload/commupload/TX334800/otherlinks_files/TaxReformProposals.pdf
    Recommended reading!!

    I found the link here, where you can read a summary of the submission:
    ‘US Tax – International Provisions: KISS – Keep It Simple Sweetheart’
    December 9, 2013
    “On December 3,American Bar Association, Section of Taxation: US Activities of Foreigners & Tax Treaties Committee (“Committee”) submitted to Congress various “Options” offering proposals for simplification and clarification of various international tax provisions of the Internal Revenue Code.”…….
    http://blogs.angloinfo.com/us-tax/2013/12/09/us-tax-international-provisions-kiss-keep-it-simple-sweetheart/

  17. @JUst Me
    Thanks for your comment on the Blog anglo Info Badger presented…

    I am so disgusted. I can say so much right now but it might put me in jail.

  21. Correction:
    It appears to be concern withholding agents. I guess the collection arm of FATCA isn’t up to speed yet.

  22. @Just Me

    I posted a comment as “anonymous” on that WSJ article. Someone other than me posted as “BubbleBustin”.

  23. The IRS and Treasury and Obama all agree ; who better than a multimillionaire to run the IRS and force FATCA on the globe?

    …”The nominee to head the Internal Revenue Service, Democrat John Koskinen, is a 74-year-old lawyer with little tax experience who stepped in to run mortgage finance giant Freddie Mac five years ago when it was engulfed by the credit crisis….”..
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/09/us-usa-tax-koskinen-idUSBRE9B813M20131209?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews

    Maybe mutilmillionaire Koskinen and Penny Pritzker (Commerce Secretary) http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/pat-garofalo/2013/05/24/obama-commerce-nominee-penny-pritzkers-tax-problem http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/22/pritzkers-offshore-holdings-cloud-commerce-bid/?page=all can find they have a lot in common. Maybe they can give each other US tax advice.

    And get together with Obama bagman and ex-US Ambassador Jacobson to talk FATCA compliance for Canadian banks and Canadian taxpayers http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/departing-u-s-ambassador-to-canada-hired-as-bmo-vice-chair-1.1382777 Hey, they all can get together and party with the new US Ambassador to Canada – another Obama bagman http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09/19/chicago-investment-banker-bruce-heyman-to-be-nominated-new-u-s-ambassador-to-canada/ described as; “Chicago investment banker……

    Known as a powerful fundraising force for the president, …. managing director of private wealth management at Goldman Sachs since 1999.”

  24. @all
    Feeling so frustrated today…Spoke to a person in my town. Had to be intelligent to get a degree doing what she is doing. She had no idea what FATCA…When I explained…She reacted like a Barbie doll. eyes wide open and telling me that is too bad and that I should take the time to organize and write notes and rest and relax…I went to see her because of my memory going. I passed as okay just have stress issues….LOL!!! I wonder why.
    My best friend says well you just have to accept it….Nothing you can do…I said yeah, like just relax and accept rape…I might like it.

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