FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
Just Me, I remember how right you were about FATCA (and DATCA and GATCA) from the beginning, when we were still more focused on US extraterritorial taxation, and didn’t understand the bigger train bearing down on us.
And I think you are prescient about the issue of “Responsible Officer” executive liability. In the US, the bankers have been able to duck prosecution and individual liability http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedkaufman/2013/07/29/why-doj-deemed-bank-execs-too-big-to-jail/ . FATCA is a different story for non-US FI’s. What individual will want to take on such a role for any amount of money? So, the CBA and its friends may push off some liability onto the Canadian government under an IGA, but not all. That may be their Achilles Heel.
But don’t they see that themselves? Or do they think they can get better terms or protections?
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/11/fatca_the_scarlet_letter_abroad.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
So, somebody got one into the American Thinker.
“FATCA: The Scarlet Letter Abroad
By Ryan Rommann
I am a U.S. citizen living and working abroad. I have always been an upstanding, taxpaying American. I served in the Peace Corps and donate my time to community service. Never have I attempted to pay less than my fair share of taxes nor tried to hide in offshore tax havens. Yet I, and the 7.2 million Americans currently overseas, am being blacklisted by a little-known tax policy. “
@Marktwain…
The Scarlet letter? or is it letters…? USA A good image to create in a readers mind however, and better than just toxic asset.
@Badger…
Regarding GATCA, nothing earth shaking in the way of insight, it just became obvious to me early on that this was the direction FATCA was leading the world. Copy Cat governments along with the OECD were going to “leverage” FATCA to create their GATCA dream, or at least try real hard. So far, I would say they are succeeding, if NSA spying revelations doesn’t undermine it. We can only hope and encourage folks to see the connection between NSA spying and FATCA spying.
Regarding the Responsible Officer, I have been a little slower in turning my attention to it, and it came with a prod from Mark Twain who first drew my attention to it. Now that I think more about it, I should make a post about the subject this morning.
For further incontrovertible evidence of the stunning hypocrisy of the US Treasury and IRS re FATCA vs. the well known homegrown and entrenched US domestic tax havens like VP Biden’s home state of Delaware, see;
Jack Townsend’s blog http://federaltaxcrimes.blogspot.ca/2013/11/nyt-op-ed-on-delaware-wyoming-nevada-as.html
Saturday, November 2, 2013
NYT Op-Ed on Delaware, Wyoming & Nevada as Haven for Criminal Activity (11/2/13)
“John A. Cassara, a former IRS CI agent, wrote this op-ed http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/02/opinion/delaware-den-of-thieves.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0 in the New York Times: Delaware, Den of Thieves? (NYT 11/1/13)…….”
American Thinker has another FATCA article out.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/11/fatca_the_scarlet_letter_abroad.html
@Em
The number of racists over there surprises me.
This link has just been posted over on the English Forum site here in Switzerland. Russia wants a balanced and mutual exchange of info:
http://rbth.co.uk/news/2013/11/02/moscow_wants_tax_information_exchanges_with_us_to_be_mutual_balanced_31406.html
No unilateral agreements for them.
@ Bubblebustin
That could be true (I don’t read there) but some good things have been published. For instance, our own Peter W. Dunn has written 2 articles for American Thinker:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/05/no_civilized_country_would_ever_banish_eduardo_saverin.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/fatca_a_ticking_time_bomb_for_the_economy.html
@ All
I finally got a nibble from a radio host. Okay, it’s what might be called alternative media, not main stream media, but he does have enlightened followers and I really enjoy listening to him. His podcast originates in the USA. He said FATCA sounds “interesting and scary” and that he would keep an eye out for interesting interviewees. Does anyone have any names that I could suggest to him plus how to contact them? This is the first time, after many e-mails, that I have received a reply from any media type person. Any ideas, anyone?
@Em…
James Jatras ;
Pingback: The Isaac Brock Society
How about Robert Stack (I only half jest).
@Em, sorry should have said some of the comments are racist in nature.
Thanks Just Me. I mentioned James Jatras and included an invitation to post a comment at Brock if he wants more information. Fingers crossed! We need to stuff FATCA awareness into every nook and cranny we can find.
Just Me has given me information to stop Reading Brock and start delivering results.
Subject: USA laws in Sweden: Guaranteed to deliver Swedish data to the NSA and CIA
Dear Finance Minister Borg,
You are in the process of accepting the American law FATCA, written by American lawyers, in the interest of Americans. According to Faktapromemoria 2012/13:FPM150 at http://bit.ly/1co9GJX
“Riksgälden och Sveriges advokatsamfund har inga synpunkter på förslaget. Riksdagens ombudsmän (JO), Företagarna, Sparbankernas Riksförbund, Svenska Riskkapitalföreningen och Utländska försäkringsbolagens förening har avstått från att svara”
Have you not done a full analysis and risk analysis upon the USA FATCA regulation and your Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA)?
Have you not demanded that your own jurists review the legal commitment that Sweden is making to USA? Do you make legal commitments without using legal advice?
Do you understand that the definition of “US person” is owned by USA and not controlled by any IGA? You do understand what US person is today, don’t you? Today, it includes many Swedish citizens living in Sweden, some of them who may have never set a foot in USA or ever had any connection with USA. Look it up or refer to my previous emails.
What is the risk of the definition of “US person” changing? Is it controlled in your IGA agreement? (no). The definition of US person changed as recently as this summer in similar situations—have you controlled in your IGA that it isn’t going to change again? (no)
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/234b6984-31a1-11e3-817c-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=intl#axzz2iFjUo6Lc
As you are taking upon USA law into Sweden, do you understand that you are taking upon US punishments into Sweden? Do you understand the punishments that are applicable to bank employees? Has your IGA contract specifically protected Swedish bank employees for prosecution under US law? (no—it hasn’t it doesn’t matter whether you have signed an IGA or not.)
http://bit.ly/16Zk3Dy
Shall be imprisoned not more than 3 years;
Or fined not more than $250,000 for individuals ($500,000 for corporations);
Or both, together with cost of prosecution.
http://bit.ly/17ubMYu
Have you taken into account that the above punishments are US law, and that they are subject to change at any time according to US legislation or US tax rules?
The Swedish tax treaty with USA is unique, in that it requires Sweden to aid in tax and penalty collection to USA. Have you analyzed if Sweden will then be liable to collect fines and/or extradite bank employees to USA?
Are you aware that the IGA you are signing for Sweden commits Sweden to everything yet commits USA to nothing? (that Sweden gets nothing but promises in return?) Reference Rep Posey Letter to Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, July 1, 2013.
(Posey letter, July 1)
You are aware that an IGA is not a treaty, aren’t you? A treaty needs to be ratified by a legislative body, and the IGA will not be.
You are aware that the IGA is not connected to the original FATCA legislation, HR 2847, and therefore does not commit the USA to anything?
Have you analyzed the effects of FATCA upon Swedish citizens living in Sweden? (no).
Have you analyzed FATCA’s reporting and mechanisms upon Swedish citizens, regarding discrimination according to national origin? Is it such that certain Swedish citizens are the new Jews? Will they be punished? How? Bankrupted? Extradited? Will they be loaded onto transports and sent off to their fate?
What changes to the discrimination laws will be required in order to search out and find citizens of a particular nationality? Will Eritreans also be searched out and found? Perhaps Muslims? Jews?
Have you analyzed the IGA? Do you realize that it over-rides existing tax treaties?
http://bit.ly/HDgecP
Do you realize that the information you are sending to USA is not considered as confidential tax information (Title 26 information), rather that it is non-tax information (title 31), and hence not subject to the privacy rules which govern USA tax information?
Have you analyzed the effects of the fact that the information from FATCA and its reporting mechanisms is shared with the NSA, the FBI, CIA and other agencies? Information not only upon US persons, but those that are one contact away from a US person and upon the Swedish FFI financial institutions.
http://bit.ly/1a17nuO
What information from the FFI’s will be shared with the other 3-letter US agencies?
Have you realized that US tax law requires US persons to be financial spies inside Sweden to USA? That these people are then REQUIRED to spy upon Swedish corporations, Swedish spouses, Swedish business partners, and Swedish volunteer organizations? That FATCA requires that US persons (Swedish Citizens living in Sweden) spy upon Sweden?
http://www.irs.gov/file_source/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf
http://www..irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8938.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8621.pdf
http://apps.irs.gov/app/picklist/list/formsPublications.html?value=3520&criteria=formNumber
http://apps.irs.gov/app/picklist/list/formsPublications.html?value=8865&criteria=formNumber
The private financial information of all family members (those who share joint accounts with the US person) will be reported to the IRS, even if they are full Swedish persons and have no US personhood. See section 3 of the FBAR form foreign “joint accounts”.
Also, trusts which are set up by US persons for elderly Swedish in-laws or any children must be reported.
The private financial information of a Swedish volunteer organization must be reported to the IRS by any US person who may have volunteered to help pay the bills. See sec 4 of the FBAR form.
The private financial information of a Swedish corporation must be reported to the IRS by any officer or person signing corporate checks upon the FBAR form
Form 5471 –A US person shareholder must spy on the entire Swedish corporation. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i5471.pdf
A US person living in Sweden is required to report the private financial information of the Swedish Company to the IRS, Regardless that the company is majority owned by full-Swedish persons.
Form 926, A US person in Sweden must report loans made to a corporation in Sweden to the IRS, even if owned by full-Swedes.
Are you aware that Swedish jurisdiction laws have no effect: The fact that a Swedish jurisdiction would impose a civil or criminal penalty on you if you disclose the required information is not reasonable cause (for not reporting to USA).
Are you willing to have Swedish banks absorb costs which are greater than the gains which USA will gain?
Does Sweden have any backbone? Does Sweden negotiate to have an IGA agreement which (it mistakenly believes) is less bad than the FATCA applications upon its banks?
Is Sweden ready to break international concepts, in making an agreement which is not upon equal terms between nations?
Do you realize that FATCA is simply a method of transferring money from a prosperous Sweden to USA, via compliance agencies and expensive defense lawyers and US banks?
Has your risk analysis been comprehensive? Do you realize that your greatest risk in FATCA relations with USA is the risk that you haven’t discovered all of the risks that lie inside the insane US tax laws?
Without a full analysis of the IGA agreement by US lawyers, how do you know what it is that Sweden is commiting to?
Shouldn’t Sweden be hiring a US lawyer to analyze what Sweden is signing up for? Someone who fully understands US laws? There are many international lawyers in Washington DC and New York City—many of whom have lobbied for FATCA and helped to write the laws. Their fees are between $400 and $2000 per hour, they could be immensely helpful for Sweden to understand what it is that they are signing up for. Why not take some Swedish money and get some real advice upon US law from a US lawyer?
Knowing all of the answers above, please explain what it is that you think is about FATCA that could be a benefit to Sweden.
Swedish Citizen
@Swedish Citizen
Wonderful…I hope you get a responsive reply Will you be passing on this to the referendum persons? How about putting in a LTTE or give to the Swedish media?
…
Anders the Borg registers all the letters and responds to those that are less than 50% sarcastic.
The others listen on the Telephone but offer nothing useful, and actually turn around and create policy opposite of what information I gave them. In fact, I was the idiot that brought FATCA on to their radar screens and enabled their FATCA parliamentary orgasms.
I’m not so good on acronyms, LTTE.
The media has proven to be a waste of time–they receive their orders centrally–pass on what is required to be given to the sheeple. And FATCA surpasses the intellectual capaciy of most media outlets.
LTTE — Letters To The Editor
I Think there are 3 people in Sweden who understand FATCA, and 1 more outside of Brock who understands OVDP/OVDI from a very bad experience. It is way too far out to be understandable to´media, the sheeple, or even the poor Amerischmucks.
@Swedish Citizen
“Amerischmucks”. We really are the biggest loses on the face of the earth aren’t we? Our own government detests us (if you judge them by their actions) and more and more of the countries we live in are treating us like pariahs (for good reason). Refugees from the worst countries in the world get a warmer reception, and even get perks. What do we get? A kick in the pants and doors slammed in our faces.
Mama don’t let your babies grow up marry Americans…
Mamas don’t let your babies grow up to be Americans!!!!
That too!
FATCA Compliance Complex member in good standing….
TJN Blog: Deloitte exposed as promoters of tax haven Mauritius http://t.co/iyJM3T4egR
By the way, did you see that Chuck Schumer endorsed Billary Clinton yesterday? Probably because she has a long-term program planned for those she calls “Global Elites”.
Some interesting charts etc. from this June 2013 FATCA forum in Florida:
http://www.fiba.net/files/652.pdf
Readers might want to read and consider this petition by MP Elizabeth May, since the issue she raises is one which would make it harder for her to raise issues like FATCA:
http://www.greenparty.ca/mps-are-equal
“Protecting the Rights of MPs
October 31, 2013
While the front pages of this week’s papers contain further allegations in the Senate scandal – a scandal that is deeply rooted in the PMO’s obsession with controlling all aspects of government – I am writing to update you on another example of Stephen Harper’s efforts at total control; one that affects my ability to do my job as MP.
I have previously written to you about a procedure that enabled an MP – such as myself – who is not allowed to sit on committees to put forward substantive amendments at the Report Stage of bills. I was the first MP to notice this rule and have made good use of it. Since being elected as an MP in 2011, my amendments have been a constant thorn in the side of the Harper administration.
This spring, the Harper administration found a way to block my use of this provision by “inviting” me to submit my amendments in committee. If I didn’t accept the invitation, any amendments presented to the House would be ruled out of order because I had been offered an earlier “opportunity”. I was not allowed to participate in the committee meetings, beyond having 60 seconds to introduce an amendment.
As a result, I was forced to race from committee to committee for the ritual rejection of all my amendments, which in turn took me away from my desk in the House. Other members were more than willing to take advantage of these rare absences.
Now the Conservatives have taken it even further by introducing a motion to require that members, who are either independent or are members of recognized parties with fewer than 12 MPs, submit amendments to committee 48 hours prior to the start of clause by clause consideration of any bill. The clear purpose of this motion is to reduce rights of Members of Parliament.
Yesterday this motion passed in four committees simultaneously and identical motions have already been tabled in multiple other committees with votes still to come.
I need you to stand with me and tell Stephen Harper’s Conservatives that this motion is in flagrant violation of one of the most important traditions of Canadian democracy: that all Members, regardless of their affiliation, should have an equal voice in Parliament.
The Conservative approach, of rejecting any and all amendments while simultaneously abbreviating debate opportunities, is a perversion of the parliamentary process. It is a new and hyper-partisan approach to the legislative process.
Please add your name to the list of Canadians who believe that each MP must have an equal opportunity to fully represent the concerns of our constituents:
http://www.greenparty.ca/mps-are-equal
Thank you for your continued support.”