FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
Have a look at this:
http://www.clhia.ca/domino/html/clhia/CLHIA_LP4W_LND_Webstation.nsf/page/06A7E6DA85F3446885257B34006CD347/$file/Joint_Comments_FATCA_IGA.pdf
‘Joint FI Industry Comments to Finance re FATCA IGA February11, 2013 Thefollowing comments include concerns identified by Canadian FI associations (CLHIA, CBA, IFIC and IIAC) with respect to the implementation of FATCA under a Canadian IGA.’
‘Adoption of a Risk-Based Approach for FATCA Implementation in Canada’
@Badger…
I think others have also suggested a risk based approach, but obviously Treasury pays no attention. The CBA has had it suggestions laughed at and ignored, and yet they still meekly comply. Is that just Canadian niceness, or do they really have no cojones?
Instead Treasury insists on the overly broad “reason to know” standards that SIFMA has vociferously complained about twice now that I have read, but again, no change by the FATCAnatics.
http://www.fsitaxposts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/SIFMASupplementalFinalFATCARegulations100413.pdf
Let’s face it. America is waging financial war on the World, and they will accept no protest. They care not about how many are in the streets opposing them. This is religion for them, and their FATCA fatwa will stand.
@Just Me, the fact that the FATCAnatics won’t even exempt the puppies and kittens of the ordinary person’s legal, local Canadian banking world here – our Canadian government registered savings (including even the US tax exempt by treaty election – RRSP and RRIFs) confirms that they do not care what devastating impact this has on people who don’t even owe them US taxes. And, to not exempt RESPs – which can only be used for education tuition – and is subject to lots of restrictions? When was the last time that a druglordmoneylaunderingterrorfundertaxevader took out an education savings plan to pay for their child’s post-secondary training?
Again, the US hypocrisy is staggering – they will offer US tax treatments http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverdell_Education_Savings_Account that are preferred in order to advance US resident children – as incentives for them to save for college, but not for US citizen parents and children abroad via our local equivalent. So, the education of US residents is important to the IRS
but the education of our children abroad is not. Our children are double-taxable AND penalizable via the ‘foreign trust’ designation that the US burdens RESPs with, and also layers on the FBAR and FATCA.
“America is waging financial war on the World”, an IGA is nothing more than a negotiated surrender.
The following is the speech Lee delivered in parliament today during the debate on Income Tax (Amendment) Bill
http://yeejj.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/iga-fatca/
Wow, compared to Canada, Singapore’s just at the beninning of the FATCA learning curve. Seems the less you know about FATCA, the more likely you’ll enter an IGA!
@ BLAZE
I read your comment very good one.
US banks speak out against FATCA
“Although U.S. banks are speaking more to their revenue than protecting their clients’ assets, taxpayers with offshore funds can benefit from domestic and foreign institutions fighting the legislation because they will still have places to store their money.”
http://www.convey.com/2013/10/us-banks-speak-out-against-fatca/#axzz2iUoduyw2
The speech from Singapore http://yeejj.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/iga-fatca/ asks many good questions. Too bad our Canadian Parliament has no-one currently asking those questions on the public record – for the Canadian public to debate, aside from those previously posed by NDP MP Mai in 2012.
Excerpt from the speech by Yee Jenn Jong (Non-Constituency Member of Parliament) of Singapore:
“…In the matter of bilateral agreements, governments form arrangements on mutually beneficial basis. There will be compliance costs. There will be cost incurred by our government to collect data on behalf of the USA. We will be facilitating the U.S. government to implement one of their laws”…
….” I like to ask the Senior Minister of State if we are currently negotiating comprehensive DTA with USA or seeking for other concessions from USA in view of us facilitating FATCA? If so, what are these?…”…
“….While this will make compliance with FATCA easier for our financial institutions, compliance costs will be transferred to the government and therefore to the taxpayer. What is the expected annual compliance cost and would the government be carrying this cost? If not, how will the cost be borne?”…
….”…My third concern is about the impact on Singapore citizens.
FATCA does not only affect U.S. citizens but is targeted at anyone who is potentially earning a U.S. taxable income stream. This person takes the definition of a “U.S. person”, which is indicated by any one of the following:
U.S. citizenship or lawful permanent resident (green card) status;
A U.S. birthplace;
A U.S. residence address or a U.S. correspondence address;
Standing instructions to transfer funds to an account maintained in the United States, or directions regularly received from a U.S. address;
An “in care of” address or a “hold mail” address that is the sole address with respect to the client; or
A power of attorney or signatory authority granted to a person with a U.S. address.[4]
This definition could see many Singapore citizens being identified as a U.S. person. In a Model 1 IGA, our Government may have to automatically transmit information on Singapore citizens who are deemed as U.S. persons to the USA. What is the government’s estimation of how many Singaporeans will be deemed as U.S. persons in the implementation of FATCA?
Are there any safeguards to limit extraterritorial implementation of foreign laws to prevent overreach by any foreign government on Singapore citizens? As the Senior Minister of State had earlier stated, it is expected that any treaty or international agreement should be fully reciprocal. What reciprocal rights will we have on U.S. citizens on similar matters?….”…
….”…Shouldn’t parliament have more details of the IGA so that we can better understand the full implications of the Bill?…”…
The #IRS is NOT in compliance with Executive Order 13520 to Reduce Improper Payments!! What’s the penalty?? #FBAR http://1.usa.gov/18a0QuO
“FATCA in layman’s terms” from International Advisor:
http://www.international-adviser.com/profiles-and-analysis/analysis/fatca-in-laymans-terms
And this video explaining the FATCA IGAs and US the Tax Haven…
http://youtu.be/JXMH_xMSW-o
#FATCA of matter is: Avoid US investments – Life is too short to be about taxes
http://www.ustaxationabroad.ca/fatca-of-matter-is-avoid-us-investments-life-is-too-short-to-be-about-taxes/
Just me—what seems to have gotten lost on the internet and even in the non-lamestream media is, only according to my memory, that Shrub Jr. nearly immediately closed down the financial wire service which served Africa and 3rd World locations, whose primary objective was for their diaspora to send their Money back to families.
I specifically remember thinking at that time, that, man, all of this financing stuff related to Terranoia is happening so fast as that it had been planned the previous years.
IRS Contractor Employees Owe Millions in Tax Debts http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/IRS-Contractor-Employees-Owe-Millions-Tax-Debts-68408-1.html … So, this is how effective #IRS will be as a #FATCA administrator
@MarkTwain…
Re…as if it had been planned ….
The Patriot Act was a case in point. It had been written and ready for implementation, just waiting for the correct crisis (9/11) to push it through with hardly any dissent. “Never let a good crisis go to waste”, isn’t that the cry of the ideologues. We don’t want Americans to think too much about what we do. We will let the elites to that, and then call this bi-partisan democracy.
#FATCA MYTH #2 “THE #IRS REFERS TO ME AS A ‘WITHHOLDING AGENT’. THIS MEANS I HAVE TO BUILD A WITHHOLDING ENGINE.” http://bit.ly/H4CDzP
IRS Takes Savings of Americans, The Progress Report: http://www.progress.org/2013/10/24/irs-takes-savings-americans/
More Big FATCA Industry / Fatca expertise among benefits cited for technology mergers: http://www.investmenteurope.net/investment-europe/news/2302938/fatca-expertise-among-benefits-cited-for-technology-mergers
Lisa Smith, iExpats: Is FATCA A Victim Of The US Federal Shutdown? http://www.iexpats.com/fatca-victim-us-federal-shutdown/
Scotia Bank worried about #FATCA and data security, has already spent $100M on compliance. http://bit.ly/1heoONm
Could they not have spent a small percentage of that on lobbying to repeal FATCA instead?
One of the 1st questions clients ask, are we affected by #FATCA ?? http://bit.ly/HkAvnv The answer, invariably is YES!!
@Just Me,
Makes it seem pretty suspicious that they didn’t spend even an iota of that to inform their account holders what was coming down the pipeline, so that they could prepare and so that they could lobby the Harper government not to sign ANY type of FATCA IGA. They are fine with the majority of the million or more, plus all the other non-US accountholders to be blindsided and forced to certify and provide proof of citizenship and become entangled with the IRS.
I am certain that there have been other occasions when the CBA, IIAC, etc have taken out full page ads in Canadian media in order to lobby for something, but not this time, not for their fellow Canadians, families and account holders.
I hope that there is a big backlash against them. They deserve it for their sneaky disingenuous backroom collaborationist ways. Certainly I will never forgive or forget – whether an IGA is signed or no.
Who gets a say in Canadian government and public policy that would bind all of us forever – obviously not the Canadian public taxpayers and voters – nope, we’re governed by the CBA and their investment arms.
@Just Me,
Who the —- are these people and why does anyone let them handle their money?
The stench is hard to take;
………”Couldn’t an admin fee be charged for the necessary reporting to the IRS?
…”Every customer, both new and pre-existing, will need to be assessed as to whether they are an American or not.
In most cases (outside the US) this will take the form of self certification that they are not American via one of the five W8s. The is true regardless of whether the customer has ever set foot on US soil.
Should the customer fill out a W9 then, by definition, they are declaring US citizenship….”
http://www.strevus.com/blog/myth-3-the-solution-to-fatca-is-to-close-american-accounts/
Why miss out on the revenue stream from American customers?”……
http://www.strevus.com/blog/yth-2-the-irs-refers-to-me-an-a-withholding-agent-this-means-i-have-to-build-a-withholding-engine/#!
…..”If client outreach is robust and commenced in good time then those who are initially difficult concerning FATCA, because they don’t understand it, can be educated in time in order to avoid recalcitrance. Said differently, those customers who have not complied will be those who chose not to. These are candidates for off boarding.”……..
http://www.strevus.com/blog/yth-2-the-irs-refers-to-me-an-a-withholding-agent-this-means-i-have-to-build-a-withholding-engine/#!
@Bubblebustin and Badger…
I wasn’t thinking, I should have posted that comment over on the CBA thread. I think I will place it there for reference…
@badger… I meant only you in my previous comment. I thought bubblebustin had posted one!
As to WTF are these people? Hold your nose and without emotion examine those statements.
I would say that is a legit question, and I would expect you are going to see that. Right now it is in the form of “you have to have enough money on deposit with us to be worth the bother”, but it could come down to higher Administrative fees to accept U.S. persons in the first place. Better to make the American pay, then spread the cost to all the other customers. Frankly, that is what I would do.
Stench or not, that is absolutely true. It is the regs. It gets close to the core issue that I think you have mentioned before. IF they are to be truly FATCA compliant, and as broad as the “reason to know” requirements are, they will almost have to ask every customer to prove they are NOT a U.S. Person.
He should have said, “U.S. Person” not citizen, but in essence he got it right. De-facto, that is what filling out a W9 means. “I am a U.S. Person!” No one else would be so foolish to sign the damn form.
That is basically saying, “don’t let vengeance or fear of Americans cloud business decisions. If you can make money on them by taking them on board, even with the extra administrative burden, why turn it away?” That has some good business logic to it.
I don’t have a problem with how this is stated, setting aside our disgust that they are being FATCA compliant! What he says makes sense, starting with the “outreach” and ending with the “off-boarding” which they are required to do for recalcitrant clients. Like it or not, “Off Boarding” is going to be a phrase we here more and more in the coming month, I fear. Unless we get a big enough Cock-up to cause it all to collapse! Here is hoping.
Good grief! Off-boarding sounds like they will send recalcitrants down a plank into the dark and brimy deep.
Notice how much over-reach exists.. The institutions are only required to search for indicia but so many examples show how much further they are going. Add to it, that all of the compliance products are structured to be modular—that additional functions can be turned on or off or purchased—such as private searches through linked in and other open data sources.