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FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two

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Please ask your questions here about FATCA.

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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well.  See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.

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3,498 thoughts on “FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two”

  1. @ KalC
    No, not kidding actually. That “roundly filed” I-407 would have been nice to have on hand IF (sadly, more likely WHEN) the FATCA hammer falls in Canada. (Sometimes I wonder if my old green card ended up in the wallet of an illegal immigrant in the USA — for a price.) FBARs and 8938s and impossible to do correctly 1040s are some of the tricks and tools of the trade which The Powers That Be use to keep homelanders and outlanders under control. It’s a trapdoor tax system and the IRS is nothing more than mafiosi without the higher code of ethics of the traditional mafia. Suspiciously convenient “terror attacks” are used to justify implementing more so-called security measures while destroying the remaining vestiges of freedom. A mind-boggling, ever-expanding surveillance system creates the insidious Panoptic Society. All of these things are designed to permanently embed the concept of compliance into American culture and reduce the possibility of defiance. I’ve heard it said that an ordinary American, fully intending to be law abiding, would not be able to get through a day without breaking a law. (Certainly a nice state of affairs for the prison industrial complex.) My apologies for ranting beyond the scope of Brock.

  2. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/09/edward-snowden-guardian-interview/2405873/

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/06/09/nsa-leak-hong-kong/2406767/

    A 29-year-old former CIA employee who admitted responsibility Sunday for one of the most extraordinary leaks of classified information in U.S. history told The Guardian he exposed the documents because he thinks Americans should know how the government has intruded on their privacy.

    “I can’t in good conscience allow the U.S. government to destroy privacy, internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they’re secretly building,” Edward Snowden told the Guardian in an interview.

  3. Very excellent new post by Victoria on FATCA”

    http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.ca/2013/06/fatca-incomplete-map.html
    “,,,Well, I’m here to argue and I will keep arguing because this is not about tax evasion, it is about something else entirely: policy laundering, discrimination on the basis of national origin, and the creation of an automatic information exchange system that makes the 99% suffer while doing next to nothing to catch the small percentage of the 1% trying to evade their responsibilities.
    …”

  5. From ACA…

    Two Swiss publications are looking to contact Americans who have had banking issues in Switzerland.

    Anna Gossenreiter from the Swiss National TV would like to hear from Americans who have had issues with receiving banking services due to US legislation. She may be contacted at: Anna.Gossenreiter@srf.ch.

    Charlotte Pries Jensen from Danish Radio is also looking to speak with Americans who have encountered problems due to FATCA and its impact on their lives. She may be contacted at: charlottepriesjensen@gmail.com

    Information on each of the journalists can be found at:
    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/anna-gossenreiter/a/ba0/576
    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/charlotte-pries-jensen/3/96b/121

  6. ‘IRS Troubles Go Global’
    By
    Richard W. Rahn
    This article appeared on The Washington Times on June 11, 2013.

    “The problem of Internal Revenue Service misbehavior is not confined to its actions in the United States, but extends to its dealings with foreign individuals, institutions and countries. All sovereign nations have just as much right to create their own tax laws and privacy protections as does the United States.

    It is disappointing that the folks at the IRS and the Obama Treasury and Justice departments seem to have forgotten this basic principle as they are now engaged in a full-scale assault on the basic property and human rights of many non-Americans, as well as many Americans who live abroad or have assets in foreign countries……..”

    “……Many Canadians, for good reason, are upset about these impending regulations, and there are groups in Canada who have said they will bring Canadian constitutional suits against the government under human rights violations if Canada signs on to the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act. ….”

    http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/irs-troubles-go-global

  7. Pondering on the phrase ‘bait and switch’ re the treatment of those in the OVD programs, and also pondering the refusal of the IRS to provide stats on how much of the OVD revenue they brag about was revenue derived from actual US taxes ‘owed’, vs. penalties imposed.

    Pondering the unique and broad US and Canada ‘reciprocal’ tax treaty which already contains information sharing provisions:

    What if the Canadian federal government were to insist – or submit a Freedom of Information request – to the effect that the US IRS/Treasury should turn over – and ‘share’ the statistical details on how many people in the OVD programs are actually Canadian citizens and Canadian residents? And also, how much of the penalty revenues generated by OVD came from Canadian resident taxpayers – levied on Canadian made assets, earnings and Canadian accounts?

    After all, a FATCA IGA is supposed to be about the ‘reciprocal’ exchange of information right?

    So, why wouldn’t Canada want to know how many of its citizens and resident taxpayers were being double taxed and penalized by the US? And approximate how much money is being sucked out of Canada to benefit only the US.

    And how many Canadian taxpayers were duped and threatened into the OVD programs?

    That could be a good indicator of what Canada could expect if it signed a FATCA IGA.

    Canada is supposed to protect Canadians – citizen and resident. So, Canada should be looking into evidence of harm by the US.

    Is Streamlined an attempt by the US to fend off accusations about how OVD tormented Canadians?

  9. @ badger
    Those are excellent points … another keeper for my “Best of Badger” files. How much of that IRS windfall from OVD was purloined from the pockets of Canadian residents and therefore extracted from the Canadian economy? Enquiring minds want to know so why has the Canadian government shown so little curiosity?

  10. Here we go again, it seems. A son-of-Ex-PATRIOT amendment to the immigration reform bill:

    http://www.reed.senate.gov/news/release/reed-offers-amendment-to-prevent-ex-citizen-tax-dodgers-from-reentering-the-us

    “In an effort to prevent expatriate tax dodgers from reentering the United States, U.S. Senators Jack Reed (D-RI) and Chuck Schumer (D-NY) today filed an amendment to the immigration reform bill ensuring the U.S. Department of Homeland Security may “exclude from reentry into the United States former United States citizens who renounce their citizenship to avoid taxation…” blah blah blah fair share blah blah blah paying what they owe blah blah blah”.

  11. Again the assumption that EVERYONE who triggers the exit tax is deliberatly trying to avoid paying tax. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? And why Homeland Security of all departments? Are they automatically terrorists as well? Well, I guess in America – land of the free – the answer is yes.

  12. @badger
    Nothing makes sense to me any more. 18 months in OVDI with still no response from the IRS. I can’t imagine what that’s indicative of, but I do have visions of our bankers box being thrown in a corner somewhere collecting dust after the cheque was removed.
    I just hope that the silence we hear from the Canadian government is because there’s important negotiations going on as opposed to nothing.

  13. You answered you own question, Medea.

    http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/113465.pdf

    7 FAM 1242 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES (DHS/USCIS) (CT:CON-407; 06-29-2012) CA/OCS/L provides copies of all approved CLNs to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) under INA 358 (8 U.S.C. 1501).

    7 FAM 1243 INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE (IRS), TAXATION AND LOSS OF NATIONALITY (CT:CON-407; 06-29-2012)
    a. CA/OCS/L provides copies of all approved CLNs to the IRS.
    CLNs are sent to:
    Internal Revenue Service
    11511 Roosevelt Blvd.
    DP:S-607 Philadelphia, PA 19154
    b. 26 U.S.C. 6039G(d)(2) provides that the Secretary of State shall provide to the Secretary of the Treasury a copy of each certificate as to the loss of U.S.
    nationality under INA 358 (8 U.S.C. 1501), which is approved by the U.S. Secretary of State. This includes both findings of loss of nationality due to renunciation of citizenship (INA 349(a)(5) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) and findings of loss of nationality under INA 349(a)(1), INA 349(a)(2), INA 349(a)(3), and INA 349(a)(4) (8 U.S.C. 1481).
    c. Consular officers no longer obtain tax information from renunciants as previously required by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of
    1996 (otherwise known as the Kennedy-Kassebaum Bill), Public Law 104-191, signed into law on August 21, 1996. The American Jobs Creation Act of 2004
    (AJCA) (Public Law 108-357) made substantial changes to both the tax Section 877 (26 U.S.C. 877) of the Internal Revenue Codes and information reporting
    rules 26 U.S.C. 6039G that apply to individuals who expatriated or terminated their residency after June 3, 2004.
    d. U.S. citizens and U.S. noncitizen nationals who lose nationality, and legal permanent resident aliens who turn in/abandon their green cards must file a
    new Form IRS-8854, Initial and Annual Expatriation Information Statement. Form IRS-8854 must be filed directly with the IRS Philadelphia Service Center rather than with a U.S. embassy or consulate. In countries without a reliable mail service, the post may forward the Form IRS-8854 to CA/OCS/L for ransmittal to the IRS.
    e. Form DS-4081, Statement of Understanding Concerning the Consequences and Ramifications of Relinquishment or Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship, reflects
    current guidance regarding tax implications and loss of nationality and IRS requirements that expatriates file Form IRS – 8854, Initial and Annual Expatriation Information Statement.
    f. Questions about expatriation and taxation should be directed to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) or the IRS Web site. Consular officers are not in a position to provide any advice or answer questions concerning these changes.
    g. Publication of names of individuals who have chosen to expatriate in the Federal Register: 26 U.S.C. 6039G provides that not later than 30 days after
    the close of each calendar quarter, the Secretary of the Treasury shall publish in the Federal Register (Federal Register Advanced Search) the name of each
    individual losing U.S. citizenship (within the meaning of section 877(a)) with respect to whom the Secretary receives information under the preceding sentence during such quarter. Accordingly, the names of persons losing U.S. citizenship under INA 349 (8 U.S.C. 1481) have been published as Notices in the Federal Register since 1996. This information can be located in the Federal Register by selecting “Notice” and using the search terms “Chosen to Expatriate” or “6039G.”

    7 FAM 1244 FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION (FBI)
    (CT:CON-407; 06-29-2012)
    a. CA/OCS/L provides copies of all CLNs approved under INA 349(a)(5) to the FBI, National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).
    Copies of CLNs are sent to:
    Federal NICS Liaison Specialist NICS Section
    Criminal Justice Information Services Division
    FBI West Virginia Complex
    Module A-3
    1000 Custer Hollow Road
    Clarksburg, WV 26306
    b. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Act) of 1993, Public Law 103-159, as amended by the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 (NIAA), Public Law 110-180, 122 Statutes at Large 2559, enacted January 8, 2008, provides that it is unlawful to sell firearms to persons for whom a finding of loss of nationality due to renunciation has been made. Subsequent laws have extended this restriction to the transporting of hazardous materials by renunciants and other activities. The Brady Act also required establishment of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) used by Federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to determine immediately by telephone, or other electronic means, whether the transfer of a firearm would be in violation of Federal or State law. See the National Instant Criminal Background Check System Fact Sheet for additional information.
    c. The U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs, Directorate of Passport Services (CA/PPT) and the FBI entered into an interagency agreement
    (1998 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)) on the sharing of information concerning renunciants (persons who lose U.S. citizenship under INA 349(a)(5)and 8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)). Per the MOU, CA/PPT provided existing Consular Lookout and Support System (CLASS) data to the FBI. CA/OCS/L provides hard copies of subsequently approved CLNs (under INA 349(a)(5)) to the FBI to be put into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
    Authorities 18 U.S.C. 922(d)(7) Unlawful Acts: Sale or otherwise dispose of firearms or ammunition to renunciant.
    18 U.S.C. 922(g)(7) Unlawful Acts: Shipment transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce by renunciant.
    FR 68, 86, May 5, 2003: Transporting Hazardous Materials by Renunciants.
    FR 70, No. 82, April 29, 2005: Limitations on the Issuance of Commercial Driver’s Licenses With a Hazardous Materials Endorsement
    …

  14. What shall be the process for this? Do your clients have ties to the U.S.? If you don’t know, find out — quickly.

    “So [FATCA compliance] will be an administrative cost that is difficult to recover.” And firms will try to “leverage existing KYC and AML (anti-money-laundering) processes and procedures.”

    That means advisors will be tasked with finding out clients’ U.S. statuses — and could be held liable if they collect incomplete info, even if the institution is ultimately responsible for FATCA reporting.

    To facilitate that information gathering, Mark Damelin, president of CommonWealth Fund Services, says his firm has added a FATCA section to its client intake forms. The classification portion now asks for the client’s country of birth, U.S. tax number, and W9 and W8BEN form dates.

  21. @Just me
    Maybe that someone should receive instructions on how to contact some journalists who might want to hear her story…

  22. @ bubblebustin
    Would “geriatrically” engineered to resist round-up be sufficient? I really feel I’m aging that fast. Power to the People and especially Onery Old Ones (the double “o” zero heroes)! The concept of freedom is being drilled out of young people these days so we might just need those who can still remember what it felt like to lead the resistence.

  23. @Bubblebustin…

    I just had a thought of a journalist recently looking for a story angle on FATCA

    Just sent this…
    @BLR13 Here is an American in Germany having problems getting a bank to take a U.S. Citizen as a customer, due FATCA http://bit.ly/121aSLf

  24. FATCA Makes US Expats Banking Outcasts
    http://www.iexpats.com/fatca-makes-us-expats-banking-outcasts/

    I made a comment, but they always go into moderation never to be seen again. Just the same, I thought I should point out the errors. I have seen this before. Lisa is sloppy.

    Good article, except for the statement of the number of countries that have signed up to FATCA. It is Not true that 60 countries have signed. The real current count is maintained on Treasuries web site.

    Right now the count is less than 10

    Here is the link http://1.usa.gov/ZawsRC

    Model 1 IGA

    Denmark (11-19-2012)

    Germany (5-31-2013)

    Ireland (1-23-2013)

    Mexico (11-19-2012)

    Norway (4-15-2013)

    Spain (5-14-2013)

    United Kingdom (9-12-2012)

    Model 2 IGA

    Japan (6-11-2013)

    Switzerland (2-14-2013)

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