FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
@ Just Me & bubblebustin
Of course FBAR (or TD F’n 90 as I used to call it) and 8938 are not about tax liability. They are about control, both by total information awareness (TIA) and fear and if they can extort a hefty penalty from a foot fault then more’s the better for the IRS (International Rip-off Service). “And I think to myself what an Orwellian world.”
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Comparison-of-Form-8938-and-FBAR-Requirements
This says that the 8938 threshold is now $50,000—wasn’t this $200,000 last year?
Taxpayers living outside the United States. If your tax home is in a foreign country, you meet one of the presence abroad tests described next, and no exception applies, file Form 8938 with your income tax return if you satisfy the reporting threshold discussed next that applies to you.
Unmarried taxpayers.
If you are not married, you satisfy the reporting threshold only if the total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $200,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $300,000 at any time during the tax year.
Now I remember—different for us than Homelanders
@Just Me, thanks for the explanation of the local bank exception as a leverage point.
@IRSCompliantForever,
I remembered that there was a discussion of this on IBS on a previous thread, for example this post; http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/09/canadians-write-to-privacy-commissioner-and-politicians/comment-page-2/#comment-11013 at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/09/canadians-write-to-privacy-commissioner-and-politicians/
and it reminded me that we can write the Privacy Commissioner, even if as WhiteKat says, re FATCA, the discrimination in Canada, by Canadian banks and financial institutions, and Canadian federal agencies (ex. CRA), hasn’t actually happened yet (though possibly imminent), nor the FATCA privacy breach (only under the FBAR requirement). So can we file a sort of pre-emptive FATCA complaint with the Privacy Commissioner and the Human Rights Commission or just a letter of concern? In terms of knowing about FATCA and what it entails for Canadian citizens and residents, the Privacy Commissioner for Canada already has notice re FATCA as Blaze wrote to notify them http://maplesandbox.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/PrivacytoBlaze.pdf . I also found this: “………Another body keeping close tabs on the issue is the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, especially as how FATCA affects compliance with Canada’s private-sector privacy legislation, the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA). Spokesman Scott Hutchinson said this includes: requirements to limit the amount of personal information they collect about individuals; the need to obtain consent for collections; requirements with respect to the uses and disclosure of individuals’ personal information; and to safeguard the personal information in their care…..” from http://www.thebottomlinenews.ca/index.php?section=article&articleid=584
and also this,
http://www.clhia.ca/domino/html/clhia/CLHIA_LP4W_LND_Webstation.nsf/a463e05a398e92368525782200611c61/309d52a5bf794d13852578220079e607!OpenDocument
We could send in pre-emptive privacy complaints or letters of concern – and cc to our MPs, Ministry of Finance, etc. as Blaze, Hijacked and others did earlier.
@badger…
On further reading, I may not have that right… There is a leverage point, but now that I read closer, it might be tilted towards forcing data sharing in the EU…
They seem to be putting pressure/leverage on the Local Banks, and even American Citizens abroad living in Norway to get them to lobby their government to assure that all EU countries ( relevant member state) are automatically data sharing if they want to maintain their FFI exempt status or, for Expats, still have a safe harbor (supposedly) for their local banking without reporting to the International Revenue Service.
I am still trying to figure out why the Treasury is adding this new condition, unless it is to help out the EU members calling for an EU FATCA and more transparency against their own evasion problem… or was it at Norway’s request? You can speculate several ways about the rationale. No time to think about it further right now. Read it carefully and see what you think…
Domestic violence and intimate partnerUS CITIZENSHIP-BASED TAX abuse is about the abuse of power to exert control of onepartnerCOUNTRY over another. Abusers bully, undermine and threaten their partner COUNTRIES THROUGH US DUAL CITIZENS, ACCIDENTAL AMERICANS AND US CITIZENS RESIDING IN THE PARTNER COUNTRY. They might control their partner’s movements (CROSSING BORDERS INTO THE US), the money they can spend (FBAR AND FATCA), who they talk to (NOT EVEN THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS) and where they can go (THE REED AMENDMENT?). Many survivors of US CITIZENSHIP-BASED TAXdomesticviolence state that emotional and psychological abuse is equally, if not more harmful than physical violence (Letting go and moving on).Sometimes it’s hard to draw the line between trust, love and abuse. Your partner may accuse you of having something to hide when you don’t allow them to
check your mobile phone, go through your SMS, or share passwords to email accountsTURN OVER ALL OF YOUR PRIVATE FINANCIAL INFORMATION THAT BELONGS ONLY TO YOU AND THE CRA OR OTHER COUNTRY TAXATION AGENCIES.Your ability to communicate, find information and connect with others is central to your right to live a full life — THUS THE ISACC BROCK SOCIETY. Ask yourself, does your partner’s behaviour curtail your rights to freedom of expression, to participate fully in social, economic and political life, and to exercise self-autonomy and individual self-determination? Who controls your life IN ANOTHER COUNTRY YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO LIVE OR WORK IN? You, or
your partnerTHE US IRS? Do you have an equal relationship, CANADA OR OTHER COUNTRIES, where there is healthy respect for each other’s rights?Know the signs. Promote respect. It’s your right to live your life fully and freely. Reject controlling behaviour that can lead to an abusive relationship.
Victoria posted this over at Allison Christians’ blog. She’s spot on as always:
“For 150+ years the US has had citizenship-based taxation but it was only very recently that any serious attempt was made to enforce it. There was a “zone of disobedience” where the US effectively ceded that area and relied on voluntary compliance and didn’t seem too disturbed that most didn’t comply either through ignorance or passive resistance.
The U.S. is now trying to take that territory back. Their decision to not only start applying the law but to heavily penalize those who operated under that tacit understanding is a serious act of aggression by the state against its citizens abroad. That kind of retroactive unilateral abrogation of that implicit agreement is fundamentally unjust. If they had said instead that the deal was off and had organized an information campaign which clearly stated their intentions and assured people that application of the law was on a “going forward” basis, they might have had more success with it.
The sentiments that are bubbling up today around all this is deep disillusionment, fear and a sense that “it’s just not right.” This has motivated people to come forward and work against it – something that is highly unusual for the American diaspora which is normally a very quiet beast. What is building is a collective consensus among Americans abroad that what is being asked of them is unfair and unreasonable. This is poisoning the relationship between the homeland and her citizens abroad to an extent that I have never seen in nearly 20 years abroad. This will, I believe, make is much harder, much more expensive, to get people to voluntarily comply. Colbert’s goose is hissing.”
“The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.” — Jean Baptiste Colbert (French economist)
I had to look that up. Thank you, Victoria, for a wonderfully articulated comment.
“The ticking time bomb of tax liability for Americans in Canada”
http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/4621/the-ticking-time-bomb-of-tax-liability-for-americans-in-canada.html
“Why It’s Tough to Be an American”
http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/goldstein-on-gelt/why-its-tough-to-be-an-american/2013/04/04/
From the Economist…
Bank secrecy is dying in Europe—thanks mainly to America (and FATCA)
The most important force for change is the least visible: America’s readiness to wield blunt financial power beyond its borders. Under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, financial institutions must reveal details of American clients abroad or face a 30% withholding tax on any income earned in America. EU members are negotiating to provide the information, reducing the administrative burden and allowing a reciprocal deal for America to pass on information about European citizens.
IRS Issued More Than $11 Billion In Botched Payments In 2012: Report
FATCA Cost / Benefit?
“Focus on tax-evading US citizens in Ireland”
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/focus-on-taxevading-us-citizens-in-ireland-29225534.html
Someone should tell the USG’s federal registry that US renunciations have ‘rocketed’.
Jim Jatras, of RepealFATCA.com was interviewed again on radio in NYC.
http://nomadcapitalist.com/2013/04/27/nomad-capitalist-radio-apr-27-2013/
@Badger,
Sorry, I just discovered your April 23 response to my persistent comments on filing privacy complaints. Thanks for the Blaze privacy ruling. (Nevertheless…)
What do you think of this approach which deals with a present (not pre-emptive) privacy breach?:
“Dear OPC (and equivalent in other countries),
I am a US citizen living in Canada married to a non-US Canadian citizen spouse.
As a US citizen I must disclose all of my bank accounts, including joint accounts with my non-US spouse, to US IRS. If I do not disclose, US IRS will require me to pay high penalties and both I and my spouse will suffer significantly.
My spouse refuses to permit me to provide any information on her joint accounts with me to IRS as she emphasizes that she is not a US person and “it is none of their business.”
Please provide a ruling on whether I will violate any privacy regulations of Canada (or, if you are aware, other relevant laws of Canada) by disclosing this financial information on my spouse to IRS against her explicit wishes.”
Comments? Is it logical?
@IRSCompliantForever;
Thanks for that draft letter. It is logical and makes sense to me. I could add that the present breach is under the US BSA FBAR requirement, and that a further related and further reaching breach is expected under FATCA.
good angle IRSCompliantForever.
Senator Paul stirs business ire over blocking of U.S. tax treaties
only applicable in that nations are tax hungry, Swedish radio reports this morning about SPain warning Scandinavians who are registered in Spain must file their taxes there and report fully their Swedish residences and worldwide bank balances under threat of heavy fines.
US eyes FATCA pact for info on Americans’ assets in India
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-04-28/news/38878467_1_fatca-pact-us-tax-department-account-tax-compliance-act
A couple things that caught my attention:
“It is also being considered whether the accounts and certain assets of the NRIs, who might be US citizens, should be exempted”.
I think NRI stands for non-resident Indian, i.e. an indian person not living in India, but might have US nationality. Does that mean that Indian green card holders living in the US would be exempt?
“Once the FATCA pact is implemented, the non-compliant entities and persons would be subject to heavy penalties”
So they know what they’re about to send to the slaughter house a bunch of people.
They call FATCA a pact.
“any interest in a social security, social insurance, or other similar programme of a foreign government is also exempted from reporting under FATCA.”
That is interesting. It’s not reportable under FATCA, but still taxable by the US, as I recall Victoria had to pay US tax on the benefits she received from the French government.
The comments are also interesting.
Interesting find, Chris. Yeah, the commenters know how to Think. Maybe India will listen to their BrICS Connections.
Some interesting discussion going on about Canada and FATCA here…..
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2013/04/why-fatca.html
“FATCA Sets Stage for EU Clamp Down on Tax Evasion”
http://www.cfo-insight.com/reporting-forecasting/tax/fatca-sets-stage-for-eu-clamp-down-on-tax-evasion/
If you want to change foreign banking rules, just buy off some of Barney Frank\s friends.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/business/banks-criticize-strict-controls-for-foreign-bets.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130501
Wall Street bankers and some of the world’s top finance ministers are waging a bitter international campaign to block Washington financial regulators from extending their policing powers far beyond the nation’s shores.
The effort — centered on oversight of the $700 trillion marketplace of the financial instruments known as derivatives — is just one front in the battle still being waged nearly three years after Congress passed the Dodd-Frank law