FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
@Embee, Can you elaborate on “A bank manager in the USA who my husband knows told him that electronic transfers to Canada are “difficult” “?
WhiteKat,
http://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/msb-esm/reports-declarations/elec-eng.asp might come under the description of ‘difficult’.
Similarly, http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5052-eng.html applies crossing the border with cash.
@ WhiteKat
I guess by “difficult” the bank manager meant more paperwork involved and doing that paperwork at a distance when your signature is involved takes time. Even here in Canada when I asked my one bank about transferring funds from another local bank it was recommended that I do it by cheque rather than do it by an electronic transfer. I had asked about how to do it without “red flags”. We know each other so I’m sure she didn’t red flag me for asking about red flags.
WK. there is little point in speculating whether or not a transfer from a U.S. to a Can. account would cause questions. Who knows?
@DukeOfDevon, there is for me personally as someday I will have to deal with this. No doubt, I am not the only Brocker who will find themselves in this situation.
My experience is that ALL cross border transfers of any noticeable size at all are now complicated as the Banks (at least those where I am outside North America) are required to ask all sorts of impertinent questions about where you got the funds (not just that they are coming out of a bank account already subject to Anti Money Laundering Scrutiny but what activity gave rise to the funds). Indeed I have found that RECEIVING funds into a local bank account from elsewhere results in the funds being held by the bank until I respond to similar impertinent questions about why I am receiving the funds. Bleeding cheek is my honest opinion should same be wanted.
A friend (who is a US Person and who is resident in the US) had a difficulty a couple years ago trying to wire money to a lawyer in her own city to complete a purchase of a piece of real estate in the same city. The wire instruction was given to transfer the funds FROM the persons Savings Account (of many years standing) to the Lawyer. No borrowed money was involved … these were the person’s own savings accumulated over years in the same bank. Days later the Lawyer called to say that the funds had not been received. It turns out that some Branch official of a branch of the Bank in a location that my friend had never visited (yet to which the account had been assigned during one of the various mergers of sundry banks in the US) had put a stop on the wire instruction. NO good reason was ever obtained for this and after some days and frantic phone calls across the US, the money was eventually transferred …. late …
It seems that what you THINK you have worked hard over years to accumulate is not considered YOURS anymore. Such funds are no longer for ready use at your discretion but subject to approvals from all sorts of functionaries under rules that may not even have existed when you earned those funds. This is insanity.
When the system is run by officious little beaurocrats who think it’s their bounden duty to interfere in everyone’s lives, that is when the empire is about to collapse.
I’m not sure if this is the right place to post my reply to the local federal Liberal Party candidate. He responded to my question about why, as claimed by the NDP, Liberal senators had voted against a bill giving equal rights to transgendered Canadians. He responded quickly, saying that he is asking for more information from senior party members, etc., and that
“while a given Bill might do something as stated, it may also do something else which goes without mention.”
I replied to him (and his colleagues, to whom he had cc’d my original comments) a few minutes ago, beginning
“I agree that, as you said,
‘while a given Bill might do something as stated, it may also do something else which goes without mention.’ Exactly! (Just as the FATCA- enabling IGA was hidden within the Budget bill; so legislators voted to provide money for Veterans,etc., and, incidentally, to allow Canadian banks to violate the privacy of all Canadian citizens and to discriminate against any who may have an American-defined connection to the United States.)”
I then commented further on the rejected bill.This candidate knows my general feelings about the FATCA, (but not enough to have consigned me permanently to the loony bin). His comment almost forced me to bring up how the IGA was snuck through. Now he, as well as his more senior colleagues, have been told again that the IGA is a civil and human rights issue affecting all Canadians. I hope my response wasn’t a waste of precious pixels.
from
http://thesovereigninvestor.com/asset-protection/america-big-fatca-liar/
‘America is a Big FATCA Liar’
March 4, 2015
“…..You see, the Treasury Department was acting in bad faith when it signed those IGAs. For starters, the Treasury doesn’t have the authority to enter into treaties with foreign countries — under the U.S. Constitution, that’s the Senate’s job.
But more important, the federal nature of the U.S. system means it’s impossible for the federal government to collect and share information about foreign account holders — or any account holder, for that matter.
U.S. banks are chartered at the state level, even the big ones like Bank of America or Wells Fargo. Each U.S. state has different laws regarding the privacy of banking information, and most of them favor privacy. On one hand, that means that there is no centralized information gathering and reporting system on U.S.-based financial accounts. So the Treasury doesn’t even have the information it promised to provide.
But even worse, setting up such a system would require an Act of Congress, using the Interstate Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. But it is highly unlikely that the Republican-dominated Congress will oblige, either to authorize such a system or to ratify the treaties required to share the resultant information.
Double-Crossing Bully
America is, at best, a hypocrite — asking for information on their citizens without informing in return—and at worst, a bully, forcing others to do what they have no intention of doing themselves….”….
@ badger
That’s a really good article — clearly spoken and this part particularly:
Baumann brocks!
@badger @EmBee
This is what I keep reminding my MP John Weston ad nauseum about – that NOT ONE Canadian’s private information should be handed over on such a bad deal. He keeps saying that Canada had no choice. I’m afraid we’ll have to look to stronger nations than Canada to stick it to the US with its own stick!
@embee and @bubblebustin,
The position of Canadian Cons (and their compliance condor star witnesses and the banksters and their investment industry cousins) is convenient rationalization. It is all about what they have decided is to their own benefit. It goes beyond willful ignorance and willful blindness.
Wouldn’t it be delicious if they were publicly shamed as supporters of a naked and failed Emperor FATCA?
The banksters and compliancers are just greedy. The Cons are playing their own game of self interest.
May they all rot sitting in the pile of FATCA-caca they’re busy shovelling up and serving to the Canadian public about having ‘no choice’. No doubt because the Cons have cast their lot inseperably with the US FATCAnatics, they’ll decide to stay the course and continue spouting lies supporting US government falsehoods up until the very last minute – hoping that the legal challenge will fail or that they can delay it for as long as possible.
In the meantime, this continues to demonstrate the absurdity that real flesh people and families outside the US are being tormented by the FATCA ‘n FBAR fundraiser, while paper UScorporate people collect and store more swag without problem or penalty ;
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/03/05/despite-fatca-u-s-companies-stash-2-1-trillion-abroad-untaxed/
i sued the bank ,, Wanted my ( 36) data back to me , not to be passed to Usa. I am not Usa residemt , citysen either.Bank made me to sign obligation to update my data in 30 days When anything changed( my e mail , my contact adresss , student visa for N korea if i get…) .To much obligations and data that i dapt that half go to CIA , not all to FATCA and thay get maney in exchange , that thay not share With me . Thay didn t Want to open dokument of registration With FATCA to me espectin that i have to bealive them . Thay didn t ansWer in Witch city thay are going to transver my data , that is re uired by Serbian loW. To much bad smell in Serbian banks. Fatca too. My offer to them is that USA sent data of their 200 000 suspition people , and only them to be Worned in bank by forms if thay open account.Leave milions of honest people in peace , – no disturb.
Welcome @ Kragujevčanin Serbia
I bet you never imagined before that you would be contributing someday to a Canadian-based (but with a worldwide outreach) forum discussing U.S. taxation and a monster called FATCA.
To much bad smell in Serbian banks. Fatca too. Yes, indeed — FATCA STINKS!
Leave milions of honest people in peace , – no disturb. AMEN to that! You said it well.
@KS @EmBee
And as Phil Hodgen put so eloquently:
“The FATCA law is a massive, steaming pile of poo,3 full of acronyms and replete with rococo.”
[read footnote]
http://hodgen.com/if-a-and-garble-garble-garble-then-b-fatca-logic/
Taylor Denson, Comment, Goodbye, Uncle Sam? How the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act is Causing A Drastic Increase in the Number of Americans Renouncing Their Citizenship, 52 Hous. L. REv. 967 (2015). (Abstract) (Westlaw)
from Abstract;
“…The purpose of FATCA is “to catch non-compliant U.S. taxpayers with funds located abroad.” The Act might be responsible for many overseas Americans choosing to renounce their citizenship, despite the harshness of renouncing one’s citizenship. Record numbers of American citizens gave up their citizenship in 2013, more than tripling the number of citizens who renounced in 2012.
In order to slow down the rate of Americans renouncing their citizenship, as well as make life better for U.S. persons living abroad, FATCA needs to be repealed or, at a minimum, drastically amended. …”…..
(fulltext)
http://www.houstonlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2-Denson.pdf
found at
http://www.houstonlawreview.org
Check out mention of Victoria Ferauge & Lynne Swanson in
footnote 26 of recent academic paper:
“26. 26 U.S.C. § 911 (2012); see Victoria Ferauge & Lynne Swanson, FATCA: ‘Simple
Premise’ Gone Terribly Wrong, HILL (July 28, 2013, 1:00 PM), http://thehill.com/
blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/313775-fatca-simple-premise-gone-terribly-wrong (“Even the
King of Thailand, the Mayor of London, England and the Premier of the Canadian
province of New Brunswick are considered ‘U.S. persons’ under American law simply
because they were born in the United States.”).”
from paper I mentioned above:
Taylor Denson, Comment, Goodbye, Uncle Sam? How the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act is Causing A Drastic Increase in the Number of Americans Renouncing Their Citizenship, 52 Hous. L. REv. 967 (2015). (Abstract) (Westlaw)
http://www.houstonlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2-Denson.pdf
I am fighting already 6 months to get 36 data back. My bank doesn t respond to my letters on regular base ( 1 month), ministry of Financy not at all.But central bank NBS keeps yelloW light to neW regulations , Which didn t pass congress vot.( ratification by deputy ).they Want me to Wait.instead to turn red light to no legacy.Shame on my state. USA acts as World policman.I don t care for them.When i enter to bank i expect to be treated as a client , but not as by police inspector..Even my bank ( banka Poštanska Štedionica , 100 % Serbian ) didn t ansWer does my data in day time keep under lock.Giving my contact adress , in USA , my SS# ,and sayig that i have a person With poWer to menage my acount ( + White pages ) and that i am resident only in Serbia someone can still my data ( ideal target ), make fake ID of me and stiel my saving in usa..My bank claims no responsibility for that.Fanny..do they think i am creasy..Mayby USA Will pass that to trafic court that i had 2 speeding tickets..The most fanny is that i don t earn 4000 $ per year.Sorry for my english . 12 years i Was not there at all..Note also that by USA loW i am obliged to ansWer about my SS# only to USA administration and health programs.Not to others. See http://WWW.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10002.pdf page 12 . this can be helpfull to you also.Check .I read more then 200 pages about this fenomena , becayse i am not loWer and don t knoW any person in my county Who knoWs better then me. ( i should use my Work as master project ).. I saW in fatca anex canada that overthere you check first 4 digits for phone.( here only one , and i am fakking them about that also ).Contact adress here thay use even if you get pizza hat dilivery on turist trip to Disney land .I learn a lot from Canada.In some countries thay don t care if youtr interest is less then 200 $ per year.Here no limit. USA asks Serbian banks give. But people Thay are standing 15 minites Writting the forms. Main neWs made a full page article about my case , but central bank is salliant , goverment also.Will see the court.. USA have to find human Way to do bussines.and disclose data of their people , not oposite. Support your struglle from little man from litlle country. find serbian translation for these 2 links http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Drustvo/ … ka.sr.html http://www.posted.co.rs/izvestavanje/Fa … ATCA-1.pdf
@badger The Houston Law Review article is a four star article! The author totally gets it– he clearly spells out the serious harms caused by FATCA and US citizenship taxation and articulates a simple solution to both, repeal FATCA and switch to residence based taxation. This article deserves high profile. I’ve tweeted it. Nice find Badger!
@ badger
Just finished reading “Goodbye, Uncle Sam” by Taylor Denson. It is VERY good. Did you notice this?
So he won an award AND he has a good dog companion too. I think I like this guy. Besides the footnotes acknowledging Lynne and Victoria there’s a mention of the ADCS lawsuit.
correct links , but in serbian
http://www.posted.co.rs/izvestavanje/Facta/Upitnik_Banke_za_fizicko_lice_FATCA-1.pdf
http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Drustvo/Srbin-ne-moze-da-se-izvuce-iz-zagrljaja-americkih-poreznika.sr.html
@ Kragujevčanin Serbia
Thank you for your support and I think Brockers would agree it’s great to have you on board. The article you referenced is the first Serbian article I’ve ever read (thanks to Google Translate). The situation described in the article is OUTRAGEOUS! Your concerns about the safety of your data are extremely valid.
@ Kragujevčanin Serbia Welcome to IBS. There is a wealth of knowledge and understanding here to support you. I agree with EmBee, the situation described is horrific. The information you have provided will add to the growing mountain of evidence supporting a repeal of this nightmare. Thank you.
Thank you friends.Your posts mean to me , because i am alone.
Hope fatca policy shall be changed.
Yes, welcome KS!
Great find that paper, badger. Nice mention of the ADCS lawsuit and Lynne and Victoria’s article in the Hill.
One criticism for me though is the suggestion of using same country exemption to reduce FATCA’s harms for Americans abroad. That only serves to benefit tax compliant US persons, which the majority of US persons are not. Great otherwise!