FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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@WhatAmI,
Hard to separate the two:
See
http://www.bmo.com/home/about/banking/corporate-information/executive-bios/david-jacobson
“Senior Executives
David Jacobson
Vice Chairman, BMO Financial Group
David Jacobson became Vice Chairman of BMO Financial Group in October 2013.
Prior to joining BMO, Mr. Jacobson served as the 22nd United States Ambassador to Canada, holding the role from 2009 to 2013.”
He of the advice to Canadian grannies to “sit tight”, and empty assurances that the IRS, US Treasury, and US government weren’t “unreasonable”, “unsympathetic” and “irresponsible”.
David Jacobson said (about CBT enforcement crackdown, FBAR, and FATCA on Canadians):
“…. When I read all of this I was concerned. So last week I called the Commissioner of the United States Internal Revenue Service to see what we could do. I explained the problem to him.
The result is that both he and I are sympathetic to the concerns. We are going to work together to see if we can’t find a way to accommodate grandma — and others — here in Canada. But we have to figure out a way to do it without letting the person who is trying to evade taxes in the Cayman Islands off the hook.
My message on this one is to sit tight. We are not unreasonable. We are not unsympathetic. We are not irresponsible……”
David Jacobson – U.S. Ambassador t0 Canada – October 18, 2011
http://canada.usembassy.gov/ambassador/news-and-speeches/18-october-2011-ambassador-jacobsons-remarks-to-the-canadian-club.html
https://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/what-ia-a-poor-u-s-expat-patriot-to-do/
“Lying liars and the lies they tell”
@GwEvil
Yoga for banksters… and ambassadors;
Inhale… Lie…
Exhale… LIe…
Repeat as required…
Seriously, David
JohnsonJacobson should be subpoenaed to testify re the the upcoming Charter challenge to FATCA.He no longer enjoys diplomatic immunity; and even if he refuses to appear (I believe he’s domiciled in Chicago), make him fight and deny it – he was the shill for FATCA in Canada … and is thus rewarded with Vice Presidency of a Canadian bank!
“Scorn and defiance, indifference, contempt, and any insult that wouldn’t disgrace the sender—that’s the value he puts on you.”
– Henry V, Shakespeare
January 20, 2015, 9:09 pm
‘FATCA: A Damaging Effort to Tax Foreign Accounts’
Frank Geng (four-year senior at Phillips Academy from Andover, Massachusetts)
Andover Economic Review
…..”……..FATCA will, in the end, draw much attention to the fact that the U.S. itself isn’t particularly compliant with the wishes of other countries searching for hidden assets. For instance, overseas companies such as Taiwan’s Acer or France’s Alcatel-Lucent have flocked to the U.S. and taken refuge in Wyoming or Texas (both of which boast across-the-board low tax rates and a zero-percent corporate income tax). 8 Perhaps, then, the U.S. should start rewarding those who keep their money within borders, instead of trying to beat-up those who didn’t.”
A US high school student can see problems with FATCA. A student can see what the the US refuses to admit, and the IGA signatories refuse to acknowledge?
January 20, 2015, 9:09 pm
‘FATCA: A Damaging Effort to Tax Foreign Accounts’
Frank Geng (four-year senior at Phillips Academy from Andover, Massachusetts)
Andover Economic Review
http://www.andovereconomicreview.com/651/fatca-a-damaging-effort-to-tax-foreign-accounts
…..”……..FATCA will, in the end, draw much attention to the fact that the U.S. itself isn’t particularly compliant with the wishes of other countries searching for hidden assets. For instance, overseas companies such as Taiwan’s Acer or France’s Alcatel-Lucent have flocked to the U.S. and taken refuge in Wyoming or Texas (both of which boast across-the-board low tax rates and a zero-percent corporate income tax). 8 Perhaps, then, the U.S. should start rewarding those who keep their money within borders, instead of trying to beat-up those who didn’t.”
A US high school student can see problems with FATCA. A student can see what the the US refuses to admit, and the IGA signatories refuse to acknowledge?
I’m on a board of directors for a non-profit corporation (condominium corporation). We are a Canadian corporation, Canadian-owned, and can only invest in GIC’s that are CDIC-covered. Our investment institution (our bank – as well as all other Canadian Banks as I am lead to understand) is requiring us to fill out form W-8BEN-E, which seems to make no sense whatsoever since it is impossible for us to have exposure to US withholding tax. On top of that, it appears (although the full requirements too confusing for me to understand on 1st reading) that I need to list condo owners who may fit one or more of the following requirements: US citizens, have substantial US holdings, spend a significant amount of time in the US, have substantial US dealings through their corporations, etc. In my position, I don’t believe that I can gather that information.
I don’t want to be part of this witch-hunt; but if I don’t cooperate we won’t be able to invest our money anywhere to maintain it’s value for the corporation.
Under Canadian Law, does the status of my condo corp exempt us from filling out this form (regardless of what the Banks may want)?
Interesting. The witch hunt accelerates. None of this foreseen by the idiots who passed this law in the middle of the night or by the Canadian government who acquiesced.
Your bank appears to have gone crazy.
You would have no right to list owners who could be involved without their permission.
I suggest you find a non-reporting credit union. Van city is one.
I suggest you contact your MP.
Do condos fall under provincial Ministry of Housing, or a similar department? I’d contact them, too. And the bank’s ombudsman. Make noise, this is ridiculous.
I just sent Michael’s info in his pist to Patrick Cain at Global News.
Hi – I do not prepare forms as part of my practice, but checked w. a colleague who does so and who is familiar w. W8BEN-E. He says as below re the Form W8 BEN-E. It is unclear from Michaels’ post if the Bank itself is requiring listings re each of the condo owners. Apparently such info is NOT required for the W8 BEN-E.
“Michael should not go bananas on this issue.
His checking the form W-8Ben-E as per any of the following (whichever is appropriate)
will take care of his organization’s obligation. No personal or additional information is required.
Part XXVI
or
Part XXII
Information reporting as per FATCA has been implemented in Canada as law since the country literally signed the IGA Model 1 with the US on February 5, 2014. People should understand and now consider the regime of reporting as a norm. FATCA is not going anywhere as a matter of fact will continue conceiving other legislations such as GATCA which is now growing out of its crib days!
Pingback: The Isaac Brock Society | Are strata corporations the next target of Canadian banks FATCA zeal?
@Michael
As I wrote on the thread dedicated to this topic:
I’ve on several occasions brought up the reporting requirements of US strata council members should any of them have bank signing authority, but the prospect of a strata corporation having to identify whether any strata owners are US taxpayers is beyond my imagination. Perhaps Michael would like to discuss this with the executive director for the BC Condominium Homeowners Association who wrote this piece in the Times Colonist concerning reporting obligation for US persons after I’d contacted him over the issue:
“U.S. citizens who live in Canada also have personal obligations of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service in the U.S., even though they are residents of Canada. It is important to understand that the sale of a principal residence in Canada is not tax exempt for U.S. citizens.
There’s more. If you have a U.S. citizen on your strata council who is also an authorized signing officer on your trust funds, that person is also required to report on their U.S. tax return whether they have any foreign bank or investment accounts.
The U.S. Bank Secrecy Act requires them to file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts if they have a financial interest in, signature authority or other authority over one or more accounts in a foreign country, and the aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.
While these are the personal issues of the U.S. citizen, the strata corporation may discover the release of the financial information of the strata corporation to a foreign government is in conflict with our privacy legislation.
Canadian strata corporations do not report to the IRS, so before any information of the strata corporation is released or published as part of the U.S. return, the strata corporation should seek advice on the risk of the release of personal information to a foreign government.
For more information, U.S. citizens may wish to go to americansabroad.org.”
Tony Gioventu is executive director of the Condominium Home Owners’ Association. Send questions to him by email or write c/o At Home, Times Colonist, 2621 Douglas St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 2N4. The association’s website is choa.bc.ca.
– See more at: http://www.timescolonist.com/condo-smarts-tale-of-two-tax-men-and-strata-corporations-1.178211#sthash.74JJIeSZ.dpuf
Ms Jeker. Thanks for your comment. Trouble is we Canadians tend to take things literally and try to obey the rules.
Part XXII is for charitable entities. religious, educational etc. Not a strata council.
Part XXVI requires certification that the entity has no substantial US owners or the names of any such owners.
The form is 8 pages. The instructions are 15 pages. You need a lawyer or an accountant. The mind boggles. Michael needs to talk to his bank. He can then decide if it’s worth his time to make an issue of this.
With all the snowbirds retiring and moving into condos all over Canada, I can just imagine the loud and furious squawking that will ensue when this Sh*t hits the fan in full force all over the country.
I was just waiting for this sort of thing to start showing its ugly head. Those idiots in the government (both north and south of the border) really have no bloody idear what they have wrought, do they?
Should be a real fireworks show. I’m getting my lawn chair and popcorn!
@Portland PLC 1) not sure about strata council’s status as some kind of tax exempt entity, but re 2) if the strata council was established as a corporation similar to what exists in the USA & is known as a cooperative (as in US co-op apt), then you wd have the problem of identifying the US owners because those living in the apts are actually shareholders in the corporation. This is not the case w. a condominium – the condo owners do not own shares in the condominium entity itself (typical case); rather they own the apartment / dwelling place. Part XXVI requires certification that the entity has no substantial US owners or the names of any such owners. The issue is who owns the strata council (i.e., the entity)? It should not be the apt dwellers…..
This is really becoming like the former Soviet system where the rules and red tape were so complicated and overlapping that everybody had to break them just to live.
Lots of interesting nuggets here http://www.bna.com/global-tax-transparency-n17179922513/ about lack of US reciprocity (don’t hold your breath), the threat of double or multiple countries all claiming a scrap, advice to companies to ‘make their voices heard’ (and it is all about companies – no-one cares about those deemed US taxable individuals ‘abroad’);
– On the issue of the security of the data and the plum it represents:
“… John Harrington, a former Treasury international tax counsel and now a partner with Dentons LLP, said the system “reflects an approach that will be used more globally” to ensure information sent between governments is kept safe.
“That’s going to be an important part of global information exchange,” he said. The data that will be transmitted—such as names, account numbers and balances—is highly valuable, Harrington said. “It’s extraordinarily important that it be protected.”…”..
– On US reciprocity (‘you show us yours and we won’t’):
“…….Treasury officials have said while the U.S. strongly supports CRS, putting the regime in place in this country could take several years due to the legislative fixes necessary.
Denise Hintzke, global tax leader of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Initiative at Deloitte Tax LLP, told Bloomberg BNA the U.S. faces political hurdles getting the changes to local law that would allow it to participate, which could in turn lead to difficulties for U.S. entities.
“What that means is that the U.S. will be a non-participating country, and non-members get negative treatment,” she said. It is possible U.S. investment funds might also get negative treatment as a result, with the possibility that foreign financial institutions could be reluctant to deal with U.S. funds….”
Thanks once again, badger.
Common Reporting Standard (CRS)
Should not any COMMON Reporting Standard have the same commonalities, i.e. like taxation based on residence?
Shouldn’t anything named *CRS* have a level playing ground, residence-based taxation?
Shouldn’t *COMMON Reporting Standard* have something to do with common sense?
Preview of what Canada and other countries can expect from the US re FATCA ‘reciprocity’ – no respect for our data and privacy rights:
The US not only extraterritorially demands data – as in FATCA – belonging to in this instance, EU persons, but has the gall to impose a gag order on an EU police agency:
See;
‘US gag order on EU police agency stirs controversy’
https://euobserver.com/justice/127142
“..The European Commission on Thursday (8 January) defended a US gag order imposed on the EU’s police agency Europol.
It means EU lawmakers and most officials are not allowed to scrutinise a document – on implementation of the EU-US Terrorist Finance Tracking Program (TFTP) – written by Europol’s own internal data protection committee, the joint-supervisory body (JSB).
A commission official said the Americans have a right to refuse access because some of the classified data in the report belongs to them.
But the EU’s ombudsman, Emily O’Reilly, told MEPs in the civil liberties committee the situation amounts to giving the US “a veto over the democratic oversight of EU institutions”….”
……..”Also known as the Swift agreement, TFTP gives agents from the US treasury department access to data on Europeans’ financial transactions in a bid to identify terrorist financing.
Europol hands over the data on the basis that it first makes sure each request complies with the terms of the Swift pact.
But the JSB says most of the data transferred to the US concerns people who are not suspected of any crime and have nothing do to with terrorism.
The European Commission made the same admission in a communication paper out in 2011 where it noted “the vast majority of this data concern citizens who have nothing to do with terrorism or its financing.”……”…..
From Australia.
ANZ Capital Notes 3 Offer
NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION IN THE UNITED STATES OR TO ANY U.S. PERSON OR ANY PERSON ACTING FOR THE ACCOUNT OR BENEFIT OF A U.S. PERSON
This was on a marketing communication. The main webpage for the offer says restricted to Australian residents. There is a big difference in what the two say.
I am thinking that this is following FATCA IGA run amok. FATCA specifies reporting on accounts. The above is for a security that is kind of a convertible bond – convertible to shares later. FATCA does not say anything about regulations on bonds or shares.
Can’t say I am interested in the offer. I am interested when the banks overdo it in regards to following FATCA IGA rules.
@JC
This stipulation has actually been on all such transactions for a long time (at least 5 years that I know of) and does not necessarily have anything to do with all the latest horrible stuff coming out of Washington.
It’s also prominently displayed on any invitation to subscribe to a share entitlement offer, and has been for years. I have taken advantage of more than a few such offers over the last years, and now have to wonder if that puts me in breech of even more laws now that America has reclaimed me. These offences keep piling up. I feel like such a desperado.
http://www.tax-news.com/news/IRS_Answers_FATCA_Query_On_SelfCertification____67176.html
http://www.iexpats.com/fatca-list-february-1-2015/
FATCA List – February 1, 2015
February 5, 2015 By Jim Atkins
Another 6,750 financial institutions have joined Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) over the past month.
@ProudAussie Looks like discrimination against a subset of Australians.