FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
@hdxlch, where you may find an impact on this is that Americans with signatory rights on accounts are moved out of those positions, get fired from their company or don’t get hired in the first place. There have been reports here in Switzerland over the last few years of some Americans losing out on job opportunities because it would entail them having signatory rights on accounts and the companies don’t want that of course.
As for Canadian businesses not screaming about it, I’m not sure how many are actually aware that Americans in their employ may have to report some accounts to the IRS. I assume that most of the info in Canada has been centred around how this will affect banks and financial institutions, but doubt that much has been said about John Smith, an American who works as the accountant/finance director for a Canadian family run timber merchant business and who has signatory rights on their accounts for example.
@Medea Fleecestealer – Great. I guess we can expect the same treatment here. if I ever reach a position where I control money then it’s my responsibility to tell my boss that I have to report company business to the IRS. Guess I’ll never see a position like that. Not to mention opening a business. I’d get taxed twice. And who in their right mind would take me as a partner in a business.
this is rediculous. time for a break. I’m going to fire up the beast and hit some south lancaster roads and relax a bit. I hope everyone here has a way to decompress. Looks like we’re gonna need it.
My list of FATCA-free Canadian credit unions (Local Client Base) available Canada-wide is now up to three:
Achieva Financial
Implicity Financial
Maxa Financial
Services vary, but you can get an idea for the 3 listed above from this chart:
http://www.highinterestsavings.ca/comparison-of-services-offered-by-high-interest-savings-banks/
There is also VanCity if you live in BC.
Ukraine is implementing 2010 HR 2847 FATCA, where US 2010 Congress legislation has entrusted Ukrainian banks with the most sensitive personal information, because US citizens are not trusted. The govts of China, Russia, Kosovo, and Iraq are also trust more than US citizens are trusted.
Here is an example of what can happen to the US citizens around the world due to this legislation:
“Customer data “Privat-Bank” Kolomoyskogo posted in Network
Hackers, which revealed secret information proved that the security of the financial institution is extremely vulnerable.
Customer Database “Private Bank” owned by Igor Kolomoisky, posted on the Internet. Thereby hackers proved that the safety of this financial institution is poor. ”
These customers one of the largest banks in Ukraine posted on the page in the social network, while hackers define themselves as “a group of fighters against fascism and tyranny of power in Ukraine”, left a detailed message that crack secret information was easy.
“- We “Cyber Berkut” estimate actions hacker group GreenDragon, gain access to confidential information of depositors “Privat-Bank” – said in a statement. – We confirm the presence of multiple vulnerabilities in the systems of the bank. Mr Kolomoisky uniquely keeps competent pros. ”
Representatives of the “Cyber-Berkut” also added that information security “Private Bank” does not hold water. They sure: press service of “brazen and cynical lies, claiming that all confidential information and customer accounts are inaccessible to unauthorized persons.”
“- Not to be unfounded, we are in for a few days will selectively spread in the open access personal banking customer data “Privat-Bank”, these payment services, official correspondence of employees of this institution – warn hackers. ”
“The first step is “Cyber Berkut” decided to put the network numbers of contributors and their date of birth. They also appealed to the institution asking customers to close their accounts and transfer money to any other state-owned banks. ”
“- Leaving their savings deposited in this “organization”, you risk being left without a penny, – the statement says. – Your personal data and accounts can use a little bit of teaching programming fraudster as information security system, the bank virtually absent. ”
A few days ago, another group of hackers GreenDog already warned that could attack the website of the bank and steal credit card numbers and codes for online transactions. However, representatives of institutions denied the information, arguing that it is impossible due to the specifics of the site. In turn, participants GreenDog say that data seized 484,560 debit and credit cards.
“You have 24 hours to withdraw their money – write on your page hackers. – Fifth of July, we’ll take all that remains in the accounts.”
“Private Bank” – the largest commercial bank in Ukraine, which is owned by oligarch Igor Kolomoisky this spring became the head of the Dnepropetrovsk region.
A group of anonymous hackers “Cyber Berkut” previously declassified correspondence appointed by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Interior Minister Arsen Avakov journalist Dmitry Brooke. From this it follows that the murder of Alexander Muzychko shot dead in the town of Rovno, was planned by the Minister of Internal Affairs. Besides, the Avakov, judging by these letters, “paid” with the death of his Yarosh accomplice fighters “Berkut”.
http://lifenews.ru/news/135943
@hdxlch, indeed. There was a blog here some time back about an American woman who ran a business with her husband and finally found out about FATCA, FBAR’s, etc. She was desperately looking for info as the situation was putting a terrible strain on her marriage since her Canadian husband didn’t want their jointly held account details to be passed on. I just hope she was able to resolve it.
I *love* your comment, bubblebustin!: “Actually what they are going to find out is what they thought were golden geese are merely sitting ducks soon to fly the coop. We will have been of much better value had we been left alone rather than forcing us to replace any allegiance we may have had for the US with resentment and anger.”
Well, well said! As someone who was proud of my origins I used to be a strong spokesperson for the USA and an apologist for her faults. Now, three years into this debacle, I cannot bear to look at her flag … even when it’s upside down!
Thanks MuzzledNoMore. It still boggles the mind how in their pursuit of a few offshore tax evaders, the US is willing to possibly destroy the lives of the majority of its citizens living abroad, but then the US has never really concerned itself with collateral damage once it’s engaged itself in war. I watched the CNN ’60’s segment on the Vietnam War I had recorded the other day. McNamara and Johnson presided over one of the darkest periods in American history. Is there any doubt that Obama and the IRS in its efforts to cleanse the nation of offshore tax evaders will one day be remembered as the orchestrators of the War on America’s Diaspora?
@Bubblebustin
I am calling it FATCA fratricide…
I see Daniel Mitchell has just “finally” posted this on FATCA, if you are interested…
Is FATCA the Worst Part of the Internal Revenue Code?
Fratricide is the perfect word, Just Me.
@bubblebustin…
Tweet it. I am 🙂
Just Me and Deckard1138 gave excellent comments on the Mitchell article.
Just me wrote:
“Of course you are against it. Any thinking non partisan person is. I think I have seen everything you have written over the years, but in the run up, it seemed to me that you were just a little too silent.
Were you just assuming that it was a fait accompli and opposition or repeal efforts were wasted effort?
Maybe that is not fair, as frankly as John Oliver cleverly said, “if you want to do something really evil, hide it inside something boring,” and FATCA buried in stealth in the HIRE Act is definitely boring to most Americans if they every heard of it.”
I follow John Oliver and he sure can point out the truth.
Good that you , Just Me, also wrote of Allison Christians post:
“Just to add to your knowledge base, this recent post by Allison Christians from Canada is worthy of your consideration..”
Deckard1138 wrote this which I agreed with so much.
:
“The U.S. does not deserve a free pass on CBT and FATCA any more than the old South African government deserved a free pass for its heinous apartheid policies. Yet several ostensibly modern and enlightened nations have rationalized their acquiescence to FATCA by publicly exclaiming that America has the inherent right to tax its citizens in whatever manner it chooses. Well, in a just world it does not, for CBT represents a clear denial of basic human rights and dignity.”
Mr Mitchell was too silent too long.. I was taught that silence means agreement.
My friends, I feel so very angry that I am refraining from writing because I fear I will write something I regret . I am so thankful that there are many of you who write so intelligently and eloquently. You say the things I want to say , but better than I ever can.
Another voice decries the elevation of US FATCA law above the constitution and laws of other countries, the lack of public consultation and debate;
http://www.virginislandsnewsonline.com/en/news/we-must-get-a-copy-of-fatca-agreement-edmund-g-maduro
“Political commentator and talk show host Edmund G. Maduro insists that no international agreement can be entered into if it conflicts with the Territory’s Constitution and that the people of the Territory should have had a chance to see a copy of the intergovernmental agreement (IGA) between the Virgin Islands and the United States to bring into effect the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)………”
Interestingly, he goes on to invoke Queen Elizabeth;
“….“We must understand that Government must be of laws. The Constitution protects certain rights that no law can be made to overrule. No international arrangement can be made to overrule [the Constitution]. I am saying when it comes to international agreements it is not the Premier who is primarily responsible. The person responsible for international arrangements and agreements is Her Majesty’s Government,” said Maduro on his EGM Radio Show aired on Thursday night July 3, 2014 on ZROD 103.7FM.
“All laws must fall in line with the Constitution. This is true about the United States, about the United Kingdom, Europe…,” he admonished.
“We are seeing a lot of things going on here. Right now we are seeing some fairly unreasonable behaviour,” he said.
“The Constitiution clearly states that the executive authority of the British Virgin Islands rests within Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and his Excellency the Governor,”………
Keep posting @northernstar.
@Badger
Wouldn’t that be something if Her Majesty got her knickers in a knot over FATCA?
@badger @bubblebustin
I seriously doubt that FATCA will ever be dinner party conversation at Buck house.
@northernstar
Thanks for your comment, and @Calgarys was an EXCELLENT comment…
I just put another comment up, that is in moderation, and excuse if I post it here so I don’t lose it, in case Daniel doesn’t like it. It probably had too many links…
I was responding to a mystified poster about why FATCA is enforceable…
Thought a little education was in order…
@David H Dennis..
Why is this law enforceable? Why can’t the foreign banks tell the US government to get lost?
Good questions, and here is my explanation. Others might see it differently.
It is enforceable, and they won’t tell the USG to get lost for these two simple reasons…
Reason number One: USD reserve currency status combined with the 30% withholding sanction, means, if you want to conduct business in USD, you are forced into compliance, even if you DO NOT have ONE U.S. Person as an account holder.
Right now, in the international exchange game, the USA owns the only viable football. If you are to play, you have to use their ball. Ever since 9/11 there is a financial war happening that has been conducted by the U.S. Treasury. The most recent iteration is represented by this FATCA offshore jihad. Treasury is increasingly employing a “pay to play” strategy on access to US financial markets with using only ‘their’ USD football.
If you are NOT familiar with this, I would highly recommend this book by ex-Treasury official called “Treasury’s War: The Unleashing of a New Era of Financial Warfare” by Juan Zarate
http://amzn.to/1mXBx6c
Coming back to FATCA….. All the FFIs of the world, (Foreign Financial Institutions – a very VERY broad definition) naturally want to avoid the sanction threat from Treasury for their U.S. investments or dollar exchanges that by the current international game design flow through New York.
Understandably, no one wants to be whacked by that 30%.
The FATCA Compliance Complex (FCC) composed of the Big 4 Accounting firms and legions of U.S. Tax Lawyers and CPAs (it is a gold mine in consulting fees) tells them they have to comply >544 pages of complex regulations, but hint at a “so called” easier route that Treasury has provided without statutory authority, I might add (see my earlier comment above). The FCC gladly market and co-enable the FATCA alternate solution.
In a brilliant strategy the FFIs are encouraged to lobby their governments to bail them out with an Inter-government agreement (called an IGA). This gets them off the hook for the 30% withholding sanction, and enlists their governments as collaborators with the USG as tax and financial data collectors for the International Revenue Service (IRS)
Of course all this data then becomes available to the alphabet soup of Homeland Security Departments….
If you like NSA spying, you will love FATCA, but nevermind.
…and the foreign government by default becomes a U.S. taxpayer as money is siphoned out of their economies and back to the USA.
Some governments, like New Zealand, are now using tax payer owned asset sales to help finance their Internal Revenue Department (IRD) pay for the cost of being the FATCA tax collector and enforcer for America.
http://bit.ly/Vo8HWY
They never seem to learn there is a real cost associated with being an IRS collaborator, but that 30% threat drove the response. It also moved the noncompliance cost risk from the FFI to the NZ Tax payer. But isn’t that how it always works in the bailout world these days?
Anyway, that is the number one reason for how the power extortion game works. That is why it is enforceable. The mafia has employed these techniques for years.
Reason number two: Hope for Reciprocity.
To help entice governments into cooperation, Treasury promised reciprocity carrot in the IGA, or at least to advocate for reciprocity. Right now, there will be nothing of significance as a REAL reciprocity trade for all the data the USA requires. Not to worry, Delaware and Nevada are still safe havens from any FATCA like transparency reciprocity efforts!
Yes, hypocritical, but….. the Obama Administration has a blowback surprise in the form of a Domestic version of FATCA (call it DATCA) planned for USFIs buried in their Fiscal Year Budget FY2015 on page 203. You can read it yourself here.
http://1.usa.gov/OY69ff
Congress probably ‘knowingly’ will NEVER approve this, but the way our democratic process works you can bury an unrelated amendment in some other bill and get it passed by stealth without public knowledge or debate.
That is how the Hire Act HR 2847 became the Trojan vehicle for “the worst law most Americans have never heard of”
http://www.repealfatca.com/
Hope this helps.
Tweet:
Corrections 2 #FATCA Regs on Info Reporting by FFIs & W/Hg on Certain Payments: https://federalregister.gov/a/2014-15465 #gov20 GOT IT?
Actually here is the title…
Regulations Relating to Information Reporting by Foreign Financial Institutions and Withholding on Certain Payments to Foreign Financial Institutions and Other Foreign Entities; Correction
Still trying to figure out how many pages this represents now!
@Just Me
Since you are twitter literate, US Dept of Fear (@FearDept) may be worth keeping in the loop on FATCA. It’s a parody account but 38.5k followers. He/she added commentary to the Economist FATCA article (https://twitter.com/FearDept/status/484036466830352384).
@Just Me, great explanation!
@Edelweiss..
I do follow them, and occasionally retweet something they do, and they me, but I probably should target them more to see if I can get more retweets out of them. I might go back and look at a few I have sent recently, and send them directly too them and see what happens. Frankly, I am not nearly as good as this Twitter game, strategically thinking, and probably should try to be better at it, as most of my tweets just disappear into the ether. 🙂
@Medea Fleeccestealer
Thanks…I hope Daniel lets it out of moderation. I guess I should go back and check. Yup, just checked, and the moderation tag is gone. 🙂
@Edelweiss
I decided, after you suggestion to go check out @FearDept again, to see if they had tweeted something interesting recently…
Truth be told, I don’t pay attention to much to the tweets that come in from all of those I supposedly follow… Don’t tell anyone…:) I have a few favorites that I got check from time to time, and most of them are those that are tweeting from IBS.
I discovered that @FearDept is using a good hashtag that I have tweeted to a few times, and have some more I will do later…
Other Tweeters might want to use it…
#youknowyoureamericanwhen
Like this… which I will tweet when done here…
#youknowyoureamericanwhen when ur lovely French wife does NOT want a joint account with you, for fear of FATCA reporting to the IRS @FearDept
That was quick. that one already got retweeted…
https://twitter.com/FATCA_Fallout/status/485888645400764417
so might do some more…
These are kinda fun, and easy to come up with new ones… If any one has others they would like me to tweet, send them my way, or tweet them yourself… Cheers
#youknowyoureamericanwhen U have 2 fill out 2 forms 2 report exactly same thing 2 different dprtmnts with separate penalty threats 4 failure
#youknowyoureamericanwhen #FBAR penalty for failure to file out an ancient informational Treasury form is greater than the account value
#youknowyoureamericanwhen you have to file and pay taxes back to America regardless of where you live in the Universe.
#youknowyoureamericanwhen you begin to envy those that got a #CLN & gave up their passport so they could live normal lives abroad
#youknowyoureamericanwhen your French PTA wants you to remove your name from the bank account that you sign on as Treasurer
#youknowyoureamericanwhen your MiddleEast bank where you live notifies you that your birth place means they will report you back to the IRS
#youknowyoureamericanwhen Iraqi banks are making up U.S. Person FATCA lists that include U and will be transmitted by an ISIS CPA to the IRS.
#youknowyoureamericanwhen your Swedish Prince Charming won’t marry you until you renounce your citizenship or at least keep separate accts.
#youknowyoureamericanwhen cost of filing a simple tax return plus duplicative FBAR & FATCA forms while overseas exceeds ur monthly salary
#youknowyoureamericanwhen you have to pay a tax for Obamacare back to the U.S. homeland that you can not use in the country you live.
#youknowyoureamericanwhen no employer abroad will hire you now that you are carrying the toxic #FATCA Mark of the Beast virus
#youknowyoureamericanwhen you wished your parents had conceived you in Canada instead.
Take the FATCA course:
http://www.acfcs.org/fatca-overview-course/
Thanks Badger…
I will sign up right away. Can you imagine anything more boring?