FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
@ellenDownunder…
Kinda figured you might enjoy that! My Brother-in-laws in Sydney sure did…
Medtronic is biggest firm yet to renounce US tax status
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-06-15/medtronic-is-biggest-firm-yet-to-renounce-u-dot-s-dot-tax-status
That doesn’t help our cause.
@nonone…
Maybe Chuck Schumer will ban them and their products from ever coming back to America… LOL
I just wished DNA persons could be treated as favorably as Paper persons.
What they are doing makes all the logical sense in the world. Why won’t you?
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/06/central-banks-in-other-countries-to.html
Here comes the wave of the future. Fingerprint for your bank id.
No doubt it can be implemented soon for offshore tax evading US citizens.
Cashless society is already the stated goal of the Scandinavian countries and probably most of northern EU.
I just happened to come across a page regarding FATCA from the “SwissLife” insurance company in Germany.
http://www.swisslife.de/service/versicherungskunden/faq/fatca.html
Particularly disturbing is the notice that, among all sorts of other criteria, also former US citizens and green card holders may be classified as US persons!
Sie gelten als „US-Person“, wenn Sie der US-Steuergesetzgebung unterstehen.
Dies kann zum Beispiel aus folgenden Gründen der Fall sein:
Sie sind US-amerikanischer Staatsbürger (inklusive doppelter oder mehrfacher Staatsangehörigkeit).
Sie sind Inhaber einer US-Aufenthaltsbewilligung (“Greencard”).
Sie haben Ihren Wohnsitz in den USA.
Sie halten sich für einen wesentlichen Anteil von Tagen des Jahres physisch in den USA auf. Das heißt zum Beispiel im laufenden Jahr mindestens 183 Tagen.
Sie sind eine Person, die aus irgendeinem anderen Grund den US-amerikanischen Steuergesetzen untersteht. Dies kann beispielsweise aus folgenden Gründen der Fall sein: Sie haben einen Doppelwohnsitz, Sie geben Ihre Steuererklärung gemeinsam mit einer „US-Person“ ab (z.B. mit Ihrem Ehepartner), Sie hatten früher die US-Staatsbürgerschaft oder Sie waren früher Inhaber einer Greencard.
Sollten Sie oben genannte Punkte nicht eindeutig beantworten können, empfehlen wir Ihnen, sich an Ihren Steuerberater zu wenden. Er kann mit Ihnen zusammen klären, ob Sie unter die Definition einer „US-Person“ fallen.
Just as many former Jews learned under the Nazis that conversion to Christianity meant little, the Swiss Life example illustrates that there may be no escaping from one’s former American citizen or green card status.
The example of Julius Fürth and his wife Susan shows what could be in store for ex-Americans. Julius and Susan Fürth converted to Protestantism in 1920 and led their private hospital in Vienna until April 3, 1938. On that day, according to the link below, he was dragged to his hospital to scrub its sidewalk as part of the so-called “Viennese scrubbing events” and due to his Jewish heritage. The couple subsequently decided that they could no longer tolerate the situation and committed suicide by injecting themselves with poison.
Once an American, always an American!
http://www.davidkultur.at/ausgabe.php?ausg=82&artikel=58
I was Googling “RBC and FATCA” and came up with this job opportunity:
http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/10370772
Project Coordinator, FATCA Program
RBC – Toronto, ON
Posted 78 days ago
Job Posting End Date: 04/21/2014
About FATCA:
The Foreign Account Tax Compliance ACT (FATCA) is a US legislation designed to identify persons evading US taxes, intentional or unintentional, through the use of accounts in foreign (Non US based) financial institutions. Every financial institution in the world will be impacted. Compliance with FATCA will require foreign (non-U.S.) financial institutions to identify financial accounts held by U.S. taxpayers, or held by foreign entities in which U.S. taxpayers hold a substantial interest.
RBC has been running a FATCA implementation program since 2011 and is well-positioned for compliance. The first phase of FATCA comes into effect on July 1, 2014. FATCA impacts all platforms (operating globally) and all products (Personal and Non-Personal Banking, Trust, Custody, Insurance, Investment Funds, RBC Equity or Debt interests) that generate income for the clients.
Interesting, WhatAmI.
If RBC has been running a FATCA implementation program since 2011 and is well positioned for compliance, why as recently as a month ago, the in-bank teller I asked did not know (or said she did not know) what FATCA was as I explained it to her?.
@Calgary411,
Shhhh,,,,its a secret. We don’t want to upset the customers unnecessarily should any front-line bank employees spill too much info, too early. We will train the lowest level clerks as late as possible regarding what to ask customers, and how to respond to questions. For now, playing dumb (for real) is a safer strategy.
@Whitekat
You are soooooo correct.
@Notamused, I fear you may be correct, that even former US citizens/greencard holders will not ever be fully free from being tainted with US personhood. After all, even a CLN isn’t proof to a bank that one has fully rid oneself of US personhood: one could have overstayed in the US, perhaps as a snowbird; and perhaps even more worryingly, many who’ve expatriated may have failed to properly log out from the IRS due to failure to have filed 8854.
I could thus see many FFIs eventually insisting on proof of having filed five years’ tax returns, six years FBARS, and 8854 in addition to the CLN!!!
This is why I will only invest in my pension fund and ISA, which are deemed compliant, Non-reporting types of vehicles. Long term, I am going to aim to keep my building society account below $50,000 because I could really be doing without the hassle.
The only thing I can hope for is that if this escalates into such a witch hunt (actually more likely from foreign FFIs rather than directly from the IRS itself), hopefully there will be such a backlash from customers that more local credit unions options will become available for all affected.
Hi Everyone,
I have a Fatca question. I live in the UK (US citizen). I have several bank accounts here, and have not heard a peep from any of the banks regarding Fatca reporting. I was under the impression, though this may have been an entirely false impression, that the banks would notify the customer that they intended to submit information on the account to the IRS.
Does anyone know if banks are……or are not going to be advising their clients who are USPs that fatca-related reporting is about to take place (or has already taken place)?
Many thanks,
@J Aron, they should be. It’s their task under the IGA to ferret out those accounts with either a clear or ambiguous USP attached to them. If they’re not sure they’ll probably send you a questionnaire to determine how “US” you are, if you can’t present them with a CLN. If they’re sure they should send you a W-9 form to sign so you info can be passed on.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-W-9,-Request-for-Taxpayer-Identification-Number-and-Certification
Unfortunately, not being based in the UK I can’t comment on how geared up the UK banks are to deal with this. The UK was the first to sign an IGA with the US re FATCA, but how much effort the banks have put in to being ready for it yet is another matter.
@j aron:
I also cannot comment on how efficiently and effectively the UK banks will review their accounts to identify US Persons. In Switzerland being a “suspected US Person” can be enough to have a bank account blocked as an article in a recent consumer magazine shows. A man named “Marco I.” worked in the US for three years about a decade ago. The Swiss-government owned PostFinance blocked his account without warning because it suspected he was a US Person. An attorney opines in the article that the PostFinance had no legal grounds to block the account, even if it had conclusive evidence that the account holder was a US Person:
This is the beginning of the article in German, which is pay-walled, describing his situation:
https://www.kgeld.ch/artikel/d/postfinance-sperrte-konto-grundlos/
After Marco I. signed a document which clarified his US Person status – he wasn’t a USP – his transaction account was again opened.
I live in the UK. I used a US passport to open accounts until 2007. I haven’t seen anything on FATCA from any of the banks I have relationships with. My suspicion is that “nationality” or “place of birth” wasn’t something that they tracked in their customer files until recently. As such, unless your account is over the $1m threshold where a manual records search is required, the banks may be doing electronic records searches for a field they only recently began collecting and yielding not much as far as historic accounts are concerned. That’s just a guess but might explain why they haven’t been in touch to collect your SSN.
Does anyone know if there is a requirement for banks to periodically “refresh” their KYC information for historic accounts? That could be a rather large trigger for accounts under $1m.
The banks can send your information to the IRS without informing you in some places.
@J Aron, I’m in the UK too. No one in my family has had anything about FATCA from any of our banks so far.
Both my children have opened new accounts in the last month or two. One wasn’t asked for any nationality information. Not sure if that was because he already had an account with that bank and we handed over his British passport as ID. The other had to complete a form which did ask for nationality, again was using British passport as ID. Nothing else about US indicia on the form.
No idea if or when they will start telling us about FATCA.
I just recently opened an account in a bank in Australia for low income people. The helpful people at the bank never asked me if I were a “US person”.
But on the paperwork that was given to me about my account – this was written:
The bank “has recorded that you are not a US tax resident or US citizen.”
I think my Australian/American/Canadian accent confuses people. I am an Australian citizen, born in the United States, lived in Canada when young.
Ellen Downunder,
Bravo for your bank certifying that you don’t need no US grief. The best of “Don’t Ask / Don’t Tell” and common sense actions for persons who should not be subject to any of this, including needless expense for you and those like you, Australian citizens, to get into some kind of compliance with a foreign country. It is excellent that they make such a statement so their clients are not kept guessing!
I think you are going to see varying levels of compliance or FATCA due diligence by banks around the world. As complex as even one FATCA form is, how can you expect that they are going to get all the details of indices identification correct? Impacts are going to vary wildly around the world.
I have yet, to have my NZ bank ask one question about our status as U.S. Persons. Accounts were opened years ago by my wife who is Australian, and while I am a co-signer, I doubt they are going to put a lot of effort into determining if she is a “US person”. The bank tellers all know we live in the States, so I am going to be curious how long it will be before they start sending IRS formications to fill out. I do think there is going to be a long lag between July 1st, and a real effective date of implementation impacts.
Notice….
China was just added to the list of Jurisdictions that have reached agreements in substance and have consented to being included on this list
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/treaties/pages/fatca-archive.aspx
There will no doubt be a lot of false-positives for the IRS to work through. Knowing that they surely exist, what will the IRS do about false-negatives? What will those who are ferreted out do knowing that others who are just as American as they are are flying under the radar? The IRS deserves to be brought to embarrassment over the fact that their panacea to end offshore tax evasion is allowing so many to fall through the cracks.
Jack Reed is apparently taking yet another swipe at polishing the turd that is the “Reed Amendment”:
http://www.reed.senate.gov/news/release/reed-helps-advance-homeland-security-appropriations-bill
“The bill includes report language Reed requested relating to … people who renounce citizenship for tax purposes. … Reed’s provision to help prevent expatriate tax dodgers from reentering the United States calls on DHS to report within 90 days on their efforts to enforce the law that Senator Reed authored to prohibit individuals from reentering the United States if they renounced their citizenship in order to avoid taxes.”
@Watcher, to Mr. Reed I say PROVE IT! I’m allowed to renounce without giving any explanation of why I decided to do so. The whole thing’s unenforceable and he knows it.
@Medea, one word: deemed.