FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
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Thanks @noone, and much thanks to Allison Christians for posting that on her blog.
Too little too late. I wouldn’t trust a country, government and agency who regularly issued nothing previously but threats and slander against the whole class of millions abroad around the globe, and who have adamantly refused to see reason for this long regarding those born and/or living abroad.
The evidence is all there in the remarks of Douglas Shulman, Levin, Schumer, Emily McMahon, etc. – all saved here at IBS for the record, and archived on the internet in various places.
A leopard doesn’t change its spots.
The US still believes might makes right.
FATCA is still EXTORTION. FATCA still forces my home country and my fellow taxpayers, accountholders, citizens and residents to pay for the US free lunch, at the point of the FATCA withholding gun. It still arrogantly demands the surrender of Canadian sovereignty, and Canadian assets and rights.
So the IRS can propose some new tweaks – which will no doubt help some, (and I will be glad for those who will find some benefit and find a better solution than they have now) but the US showed me what it and its agencies are truly about.
The Democrats still refuse to pass the bill to authorize and fund a Presidential Commission to look into the issues those abroad face.
Over half of US states still deny those born and living abroad the ability to register and vote from abroad without US residency.
Those abroad still have no actual representation but they do have penalty fundraising, demonization of their legal local accounts, punitive double taxation of their ordinary education, disability and other benefits and savings, taxation of their homes abroad, etc.
There still is no RBT or same country exception for legal local accounts.
Canadian mutual funds are still PFICs. Canadian registered savings are still ‘taxable foreign trusts’. Canadian education and disability benefits are still treated as taxable by the US.
Those deemed incompetent to expatriate are still involuntarily bound for a lifetime, and their families along with them.
President Obama still has reneged on his 2008 pledge to listen to the concerns of those abroad. He still doesn’t acknowledge the existence of those abroad in any way that I can see, nor what FATCA and CBT and the IRS crusade has done to us. I think it is deliberate.
May the renunciations and relinquishments continue by those who can see a path clear to do so without obliteration.
I don’t regret surgically excising my US citizenship. I regret only my hard earned family savings lost to uselessly filing masses of complex and incomprehensible paperwork to prove I ‘owed’ the US years of nothing. I regret that I was forced into doing that, and forced to jump through multiple hoops, and hang in limbo over the time it took to do so in order to try and regain a normal life. I regret ever having retained the citizenship by birth of a country who caused me and mine so much useless stress, fear and anxiety. I will never get those Life Credit Units back – when I should have been paying full attention to my family and other parts of life.
The US is a morally bankrupt bully.
May the FATCA challenge suceed.
May Canada tell the US where it can put FATCA finally. And may the EU and other countries follow suit.
Final deadline passes and only 70 IGAs in place
by williambyrnes
The June 3rd deadline for FATCA FFI registration to be included on the July 1 GIIN list has come and now gone. In the past two weeks, only four additional IGAs have been added to the list (Turkey, Seychelles, UAE and Barbados) so that as of Tuesday June 3, 2014, only 70 FATCA IGAs have been signed or treated as if signed. These 70 include 29 signed Model 1s with another 34 treated as if signed, and 5 signed Model 2s with 2 treated as if signed.
Read more of this post
http://profwilliambyrnes.com/2014/06/03/final-deadline-passes-and-only-70-igas-in-place/
Too bad FATCA doesn’t stir passions like Net Neutrality issue does…
John Oliver trolls broke the government web site after his encouragement
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/03/john-oliver-broke-the-fcc-website_n_5439694.html?&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067
See, Evil even when buried in the boring, can break out. Will FATCA’s day ever come?
@Just Me
It would be nice if we had John Oliver as our weapon of mass discussion too, wouldn’t it.
Thanks to Professor Byrnes for attempting to determine just when FATCA withholding becomes inevitable for FFI’s. His and other’s analysis make it as clear as mud to me!
Unfortunately, the jargon of FATCA compliance assures that you daze over and not understand it.
As John Oliver said…
‘If you want to do something EVIL, do it inside something BORING.”
One of the credit unions that I wrote to ask about FATCA, Outlook Financial, sent the reply below. I specifically asked if they would be deemed-compliant non-reporting due to their local client base.
Big Brother list of the 77,000 FFIs allegedly FATCA registered.
https://www.abolishfatca.com/IRS_FFI_List.pdf
Very creepy!
FATCAnatics continue to hammer on Rand Paul to stop blocking the US-Switzerland tax treaty, but do they really need to?
“A Treasury official recently told Paul’s staff that FATCA “doesn’t work” without the treaties, though there seems to be disagreement on that point, even in the executive branch.
That sent up red flags anew to Paul because the senator has legislation to repeal FATCA and hesitates to support a treaty that enables a law he views as U.S. government overreach.”
He may just knuckle under for US companies, though:
“Beyond tax evasion, companies say the treaties are needed to settle double-taxation disputes that take years to resolve, leaving businesses’ financial books in limbo when it comes to what they owe.
That’s why Paul’s office said the senator is contemplating releasing these holds, but he wants a number of questions answered first. Last summer, his office reached out to the Joint Committee on Taxation and Democrats on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff to learn about ways to amend the treaty to his liking. He may offer up report language to narrow the treaty interpretation in the next few weeks.
“Sen. Paul would like nothing more than these treaties to pass,” his staffer said and contrary to some reports, the senator isn’t demanding FATCA repeal in order to advance the treaties, he added.”
http://taxconnections.com/taxblog/paul-continues-to-block-move-to-ratify-u-s-swiss-tax-treaty/#.U5CgTSe9KSM
http://www.jewishjournal.com/nation/article/americans_must_pay_taxes_on_bank_accounts_in_israel
……”… The impact in Israel could be significant, as the act also applies to U.S. citizens living abroad. There are roughly 150,000 to 200,000 Americans residing in Israel with accounts there, according to Dave Wolf, tax partner of Hacohen Wolf Law Offices based in New York, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
Reactions among those affected have been mostly negative, he said.
“People are confused, worried and angry and are looking into ways to become compliant even if they thought they already were,” Wolf said. “Also, some are considering giving up their U.S. citizenship.”..”……..
……”… According to Chaim Korn, a U.S. finance and tax consultant in Israel, it affects many who have never lived in the United States as well as green card holders.
“It has affected, I believe, many American citizens overseas deciding not to obtain U.S. citizenship for their newly born children,” he said. …”…..
“…“When you have accounts overseas, you have to disclose all details of those assets,” he said. “In the U.S., you basically just have to pay tax on income earned on U.S. portfolios. You don’t have to report the assets you own in the U.S.” …”…
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/russia-vtb-to-phase-out-us-customers-20140605-00681
“…..Russia’s number two lender, state-controlled VTB Group (VTBR.RS), said Thursday that it will phase out business with U.S. taxpayers because of the requirement to report details of their accounts to the authorities in the U.S.
……”…
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/russia-s-vtb-will-stop-services-for-u-s-taxpayers-to-curb-risks.html
……”..VTB Group, Russia’s second-biggest lender, will wind down banking services to U.S. taxpayers in the former Soviet republic because of a requirement to report details of these accounts to the American authorities.
The state-controlled banking group, which has about 2,000 clients paying U.S. taxes, including businesses and individuals, will not renew contracts in order to minimize the risk of penalties, though it will continue servicing existing accounts..”….
……..”‘Financial Weapon’
Starting in March, the U.S. and the European Union have imposed a series of sanctions against Russia over the annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea Peninsula and the rebellion by pro-Russian separatists in the southeast of the country. VTB has the biggest Wall Street operation of any Russian bank, leaving it vulnerable to U.S. measures. “…….
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/06/06/putin-foreigners-russia/10003575/
Russia requiring all dual citizens to register. Same as USA requires
First IRS FATCA list of 77,000 financial institutions reveals successes, shortcomings of US tax compliance push
“FATCA is just a prelude to other broader data exchanges since the G20 has committed to more account information exchange,” Zagaris says. “The international community is moving forward with automatic information exchange.”
GATCA
FATCA lands in Canada with unresolved issues
@Just Me,
Thanks for that article – which was written by Michel Coderre. http://www.michelcoderre.ca/en/
I think that he is this same Conservative, having been previously;
” Executive-assistant to Deputy Minister of Finance
Department of Finance, Government of Canada
May 1985 – August 1988 (3 years 4 months) Ottawa
Executive-assistant to Deputy Minister of Finance during the first term of office of Prime Minister Mulroney. Participated at Minister’s table on matters of tax reform, financial institutions regulation, the Canada-U.S. free trade agreement, fiscal reform and international trade….”
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/taxlawyercanada
As such, I would be very interested to know if he believes that FATCA contravenes NAFTA and unfettered access by Canadian FIs (and NFIs) to its financial market. And if he believes that FATCA is in contravention, what are those in the Conservative party who weren’t necessarily Harperites thinking about Harper having signed Canada away under the FATCA IGA?
I think that Coderre served under Conservative Finance Minister Michael Holcombe Wilson (17 Sept. 1984 – 20 April 1991) http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/mgm/dtail.asp?lang=eng&mstyid=24&mbtpid=1 . That Finance Minister Wilson; “… was also instrumental in the Conservatives’ attempt at reforming Canada’s TAXATION structure and in the negotiations for the loosening of trade barriers between Canada and the US…..” http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/michael-holcombe-wilson/
“JP Morgan apologises for the intrusion, but explains the bank has no choice but to ask for the information from customers as it is legally obliged to do so in the US.
Whether the IRS has jurisdiction to demand the information from non-US residents is a legal point that does not seem to have been addressed yet.
“In future, rather than send letters and IRS tax declarations to customers, we expect to ask new customers a set of simpler questions,” said a spokesman for the bank.
“We do not anticipate that we will have to send existing customers any more letters demanding information, although they may have to fill in an IRS declaration each year.”
– See more at: http://www.iexpats.com/fatca-just-worry-american-investors/#sthash.t3Z0E4M6.dpuf“
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-06-09/pdf/2014-13347.pdf
Note this section on page 2, 33041;
“Affected Public: Business and other
for profit and not-for-profit institutions.
Estimated Number of Respondents:
4,896,800.
Estimated Time per Respondent: 50
minutes.
Estimated Total Annual Burden
Hours: 4,063,856”
DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Internal Revenue Service
Proposed Information Collection;
Comment Request
AGENCY: Internal Revenue Service (IRS),
Treasury.
ACTION: Notice and request for
comments.
SUMMARY: The Department of the
Treasury, as part of its continuing effort
to reduce paperwork and respondent
burden, invites the general public and
other Federal agencies to take this
opportunity to comment on proposed
and/or continuing information
collections, as required by the
Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995,
Public Law 104–13 (44 U.S.C.
3506(c)(2)(A)). Currently, the IRS is
soliciting comments concerning Form
8957, Foreign Account Tax Compliance
Act (FATCA) Registration, and Form
8966, FATCA Report.
DATES: Written comments should be
received on or before August 8, 2014 to
be assured of consideration.
ADDRESSES: Direct all written comments
to Joe Durbala, Internal Revenue
Service, Room 6129, 1111 Constitution
Avenue NW., Washington, DC 20224.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT:
Requests for additional information, or
copies of the information collection and
instructions should be addressed to
Allan Hopkins, at Internal Revenue
Service, Room 6129, 1111 Constitution
Avenue NW., Washington, DC 20224, or
through the Internet, at
Allan.M.Hopkins@irs.gov.
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: Title:
Form 8957, Application or Foreign
Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
Registration, Form 8966, FATCA Report.
OMB Number: 1545–2246.
Form Numbers: 8957, 8966.
Abstract: The IRS is developed these
forms under the authority of IRC section
1471(b), which was added by PL 111–
47, section 501(a). Section 1471 is part
of the new Foreign Account Tax
Compliance Act (FATCA) legislative
framework to obtain reporting from
Federal Register/Vol. 79, No. 110/Monday, June 9, 2014/Notices
foreign financial institutions on the
accounts held in their institutions by
U.S. persons.
Current Actions: There are no changes
being made to these forms at this time.
Type of Review: Extension of a
currently approved collection.
Affected Public: Business and other
for profit and not-for-profit institutions.
Estimated Number of Respondents:
4,896,800.
Estimated Time per Respondent: 50
minutes.
Estimated Total Annual Burden
Hours: 4,063,856.
The following paragraph applies to all
of the collections of information covered
by this notice:
An agency may not conduct or
sponsor, and a person is not required to
respond to a collection of information,
unless the collection of information
displays a valid OMB control number.
Books or records relating to a collection
of information must be retained as long
as their contents may become material
in the administration of any internal
revenue law. Generally, tax returns and
tax return information are confidential,
as required by 26 U.S.C. 6103.
Request for Comments: Comments
submitted in response to this notice will
be summarized and/or included in the
request for OMB approval. All
comments will become a matter of
public record. Comments are invited on:
(a) Whether the collection of
information is necessary for the proper
performance of the agency’s functions,
including whether the information has
practical utility; (b) the accuracy of the
agency’s estimate of the burden of the
collection of information; (c) ways to
enhance the quality, utility, and clarity
of the information to be collected; (d)
ways to minimize the burden of the
collection of information on
respondents, including the use of
automated collection techniques or
other forms of information technology;
and (e) estimates of capital or start-up
costs and costs of operation,
maintenance, and purchase of services
to provide information.
Approved: June 2, 2014.
R. Joseph Durbala,
IRS Reports Clearance Officer.
[FR Doc. 2014–13420 Filed 6–6–14; 8:45 am]
BILLING CODE 4830–01–P
sorry, I couldn’t fix the formatting from the document above, and page 2 was missing from the PDF posted online.
http://taxpol.blogspot.ca/2014/06/the-world-according-to-fatca-in-3-maps.html
newest from Allison Christians re FATCA
“……….There really isn’t any doubt that some of the poorest countries in the world will be most unfairly treated in any multilateral regime for global information exchange which excludes the United States because it acts unilaterally to attain solely its own goals, with no regard for the price others must pay or the appropriateness of imposing that cost where no wrong has ever been accused much less proven.”……….
……”
“…….Here the pattern repeats itself: even if they wanted to, many of the countries in the third map cannot forestall the present threat of economic sanctions. The United States simply doesn’t need them. Yet many, many of these countries suffer far more from bank secrecy provided by the US and elsewhere than the other way around.
The unjustified and virtually-ignored perfection of US citizenship taxation is one part of FATCA’s unexamined legacy, the dismantling of comity in international taxation another; so, too, the repeated exclusion of the developing world from an institutional order that is becoming increasingly unjust.”
FATCA – Guilty Until Found innocent
Exposes the lie by the US Treasury that countries were falling over themselves to sign FATCA IGAs willingly – rather than the truth – it is only because of US coercion and economic sanctions:
Forbes Asia 6/09/2014 @ 9:40AM 749 views
Letter From Phnom Penh (3): FATCA Turning Local Banks Into IRS Enforcers
by Stephen Harner, Contributor
“……………the U.S. Internal Revenue Service is physically present in Cambodia. But there can be no denying that the IRS is here, with heavy-handed, extraterritorial powers that suggest a kind of financial neo-colonialism.
I am speaking about FATCA–the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act–that will come into effect on July 1. This regime, signed into law by President Obama on March 18, 2010, requires foreign banks to report to the IRS information names, tax I.D. numbers, addresses, and transactions of information of U.S. person account holders–individuals or 10% or more “entity shareholders”–and, in some cases to withhold and pay directly to the IRS 30% of the interest earned by these account holders.
More chilling still, the law turns local banks into IRS investigators, requiring them to perform “due diligence” on “suspicious” account holders or applicants who may have opened accounts using foreign passports but may have dual U.S. citizenship or permanent residence. Banks must report such “suspicious” persons. Failure or insufficient attention to doing so will find the bank “negligent” and subject to sanctions.
Last week the U.S. Treasury Department issued press releases boasting of the near universal compliance of foreign banks with the new law. In fact banks in the ASEAN region were universally opposed to it. They will comply because the regime gives them no choice.”…………..
The Forbes article above described the situation in an Asian country, but it could just as well describe Canada:
“……FATCA does not recognize other countries’ sovereignty.”…..
…”..FACTA in practice unilaterally and arbitrarily overrides other countries’ laws. This is quasi-colonial extraterritoriality. Apparently, the “rule of law in international affairs”–an increasingly tiresome Obama administration refrain–applies only when the law is made in Washington, D.C…”….
….”..I am quite sure that any country that put a high value on interstate harmony, and its sine qua non, respect for other countries’ sovereignty and independence, not to mention the freedom and privacy of its citizens, would not have brought us FATCA….”
Just an FYI, NOT an endorsement of this compliance professional, his services, or his views:”
http://mopsicktaxlaw.blogspot.ca/2014/06/new-commissioner-raises-hopes-for-tax.html
Whatever comes from the IRS, it may help some, but US extraterritorial CBT and FATCA are so unethical at ROOT, and contain so many abusive provisions in application, that it is unavoidable that renunciations and relinquishments will continue – (and perhaps pick up pace if the announcement of a new method of compliance for those abroad helps some additional people who may be hesitating, and considering just how to renounce, get their CLNs, and file in order not to be deemed a ‘covered expatriate’).
@Badger
If the new commissioner gets it, he’ll realize that CBT does not work and no matter what you do to implement it, it will NEVER EVER EVER work. But that’s not his place to make that assessment. His job is to be the executioner.
Mopsick: “What about the 43,000 people who have already paid more than $6 billion in back taxes and a 20 to 27.5% hefty tribute to Uncle Sam under the various voluntary disclosure programs? Can they now apply for refund? Probably not if they have signed an IRS closing agreement which generally cannot be revoked or amended absent fraud or mistake.”
Refusing to sign an IRS closing agreement would be akin to telling your rapist that you refuse give him your car keys to depart the scene.
Just occurred to me- isn’t there some FACTA rule that affects people who have signing approval over an account, such as a departmental budget, will my employer have to identify employees who are US citizens after July 1st?