FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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I am not sure the story about the hospitals is related to FATCA. The article said that they were not serving US AND CANADIAN customers for anything that is non life threatening. I think it has more to do with the propensity of Americans to sue if something wrong happens. I don’t think it has anything to do with bank accounts.
@PierreD
3 times didn’t cut it for me. I must have read it 30 times.
I think to qualify for the local client base, the FFI must have a policy to only hold accounts for residents of Canada. If a Canadian resident moves to another country, the account must be reported or closed. I assume this would mean closed, because such an FFI would likely have no reporting capability set up at all.
The draft CRA IGA guidance describes this a bit differently, and mentions that 98% of their customer base being Canadian-resident is good enough to qualify.
I’m not sure what the “Local bank” described in III-B of Annex II adds to all this.
Some of the credit unions I’m contacting say on their website that members must be Canadian residents. Some say must be Canadian citizens (if I remember correctly). All require a personalized check from some other Canadian bank to open an account.
Note that not all FFIs with a local client base qualify. One reason, I’m told, is that their parent company does not have a local client base and they are tied into the reporting requirements of the parent. Interestingly, Implicity told me back in February that this was “probably” what would happen to them, but now they are deemed-compliant after all.
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-treasury-proposes-criminal-penalties-for-fatca-non-compliance-1000942546
In Israel, 7 years of prison time for not narc’ing out the US persons that are your bank customers.
Orwell never knew that things could be done so effectively! The Stasi never was this effective.
@calgary411
No, I didn’t contact ATB.
I wanted high interest accounts, so I contacted all the credit unions in the following list that pay 1.8% or 1.9% (except for Bridgewater, since they have no online banking):
http://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/
I have no interest in asking any “reporting” FFIs if they will elect to use the $50K threshold for account reporting. I don’t trust that anybody knows that for sure yet, or they won’t change their policy down the road.
@Charl,
I agree with Mr. A, except I didn’t even ask my advisor what he planned to do with the knowledge of my birthplace, I just moved all my non-registered funds elsewhere (even though they totaled less than $1 million). It’s not up to him, and he probably hadn’t heard yet anyway.
For me, one of the most confusing things about FATCA is the roll-out timing with the various dates. I think in Canada, FFIs start _collecting_ data on July 1 but don’t start _transferring_ it until January 1, 2015. I don’t know if that transfer means from the FFI to the CRA, or from the CRA to the IRS. What if an account is closed this year after July 1? No matter, I don’t want to have any reportable money anywhere by July 1. If I do, at least it will be in accounts that are less than $50K (not that I have much faith in that threshold being applied).
Many people will be receiving CLNs after July 1, some who have already had their consulate appointments and are now waiting to hear. What do they do if their bank contacts them with nasty questions while they’re waiting?
@noone & heidi, yes it mentioned British too which is really strange. Here in Europe we have what is called a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) which covers you for emergency treatment anywhere in Europe so a UK resident would be covered via the NHS system if they’ve applied for an EHIC. But if some British people have been having non-emergency stuff then they’d have to either pay up front or have travel insurance I would think. So very unlikely to be anything to do with FATCA.
@PierreD, the IGA refers to credit unions but the IGA defers to Treasury Regulations. Thats one of the big problems. Canada has approved an IGA the terms of which can be unilaterally changed!!!
With respect to Credit Unions, if they are part of a transnational firm they do not qualify.
If they have less than $175 million US they are non reporting.
Deatails;
http://www.woccu.org/policyadvocacy/currentissues
If they are above that limit, they can qualify as a Local Client base firm. Basically, they must only open accounts for residents and if a US person is not resident anymore, they must close the account.
@George
I am being a bit thick here. So, if they are above the 1.75 limit but have a local client base they can qualify? Then I wonder why my local Mennonite credit union with assets of 9.5 mill is collecting citizenship info. They only have 6 offices all in Ontario so they are not transnational.
This is what the manager said:
“….making some internal changes to ensure compliance by July 1st. We have several staff at our Head Office that are working on procedures, including recording proper citizenship of all members (new & existing)”
These Mennonite groups have a LOT of US tainted folks. I can not imagine they would abandon them but they are collecting info.
@Charl
I agree with the others… close the accounts…. trust no one in the financials… if anyone knows what u are… they will be required to report it… it will be the law… no one is going to keep it a secret… do not depend on them doing that… if u think just because u are friendly with them will mean anything… it will not… I already have an uneasy feeling that they will require everyone to fill out US forms like they are doing in the UK… just to cover themselves… there was an article link on one of the posts here that even though they did not invest in the US… they were told to fill out the US form… U need to do this before they require that a passport will be one of the required forms of id
As of May 23, 77,000 FFIs have signed up to search out and turn in U.S. Persons living around the globe. The round up is almost complete.
http://www.fsitaxposts.com/2014/06/03/ffi-list/#comment-705
Now what about those that have NOT?
http://bit.ly/1m6Rszp
@Charl , they have been sold a bill of goods by compliance industry jackals.
Thats what I am seeing in the EU.
In Annex II they are considered a “deemed compliant nonregistering local bank.”
They do not need to register, they have no reporting obligations.
Unless…………..they volunteer to be reporting because some jackal told them it was a good idea.
@George
So there is the MIC (military Industrial industry) and now Are these jackels in the FFCI ? They profit heavily like he MICs.
As for Credit Unions… I am still waiting for an answer from the Northern Credit Union after almost a month. and Canadian Tire Financial Banking. I feel they are lying through their teeth and will not tell anyone what they will be doing for confirming American indica.
Newest US Ambassador to newest US state of CanadaIsUS: now we’ve got you signed up to betray your citizens, your laws, your Charter, your assets and your sovereignty, here’s what you’ll be doing for us next, pronto …. (Funny, he doesn’t mention FATCA as an irritant to the ‘special relationship’, nor the over 1 million USpersons in Canada that the US extraterritorially holds as serfs based solely on parentage or birthplace);
‘Bruce Heyman sets out agenda as U.S. ambassador to Canada
Heyman says that ‘naysayers’ of bilateral relationship should not ‘mistake headlines for trend-lines’
By Susana Mas, CBC News Posted: Jun 02
“U.S. Ambassador Bruce Heyman says he is determined not to let the Canada-U.S. relationship sour under his watch, in his first public speech since taking on the job.
“At the end of my tenure here, I want to be able to say that I have enhanced the enduring relationship our two countries share,” Heyman said…..The event was organized by Canada 2020, a think-tank based in Ottawa.”
Canada 2020? Would like to hear more about this “think tank”, or is that shark tank?
Update analysis of the FFI Capitulators…
read on at
http://profwilliambyrnes.com/2014/06/02/77353-ffi-listed-by-irs-as-fatca-compliant-heres-a-breakdown/
News for Bruce Heyman: The Canada-U.S. relationship soured years ago when the rotten FATCA apple was thrown into our Canadian barrel. The only thing Heyman can do to make it “sweet” again is to hear us shouting for justice and to make his government aware of the Canadian Revolution that is now in full swing.
From the CRA website (FAQs– FATCA):
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/fq-eng.html
6. Will my financial institution be asking me if I was born in the U.S.?
A financial institution complying with the Agreement will not be required to ask its account holders about their place of birth.
If a financial institution, applying the due diligence rules of the Agreement to its accounts, discovers any records connected to the account that have an unambiguous indication of a U.S. place of birth, the financial institution may treat the account as a reportable account or follow up with the account holder to obtain documentation that shows the account holder is not a U.S. resident or U.S. citizen.
A recent posting to IBS from me (from around the same time the servers went down):
RBC Direct Investing: The US Persons Round-Up:
I was helping a family member open an on-line investment account with RBC Direct Investments today. I couldn’t help but notice the many different ways RBC DI is trying to identify so-called “US Persons.”
Here are the questions asked by the on-line application:
Are you a U.S. Citizen or a U.S. resident for tax purposes?
If you answer yes, the next prompt is:
To comply with regulations, you will be presented with a W9 form with your application package.
Enter your US Social Security Number (SSN).
If you answer no, the next question is:
How many countries are you a resident of for tax purposes?
You are then asked:
Country of residence for tax purposes.
Next up is:
Enter your City of birth.
Followed by:
Enter your Country of birth.
Next up is:
Are you, the co-applicant, a U.S. Citizen or a U.S. resident for tax purposes?
If you answer yes, you are prompted to enter your US Social Security Number (SSN).
You also get the statement, “To comply with regulations, you will be presented with a W9 form with your application package.”
If you answer no, the next prompt is:
How many countries is the co-applicant a resident of for tax purposes?
This is followed by:
Co-applicant’s country of residence for tax purposes.
Co-applicant’s city of birth.
Co-applicant’s country of birth
Are you married or do you have a common-law spouse?
Is your spouse the joint applicant?
I think we can consider this a sign of things to come from Canadian banks and investment firms in the coming months. Forewarned is forearmed.
One more thing. A W-8BEN for is a part of the package. RBC-DI requires completion of the W-8BEN form so that Canadian citizens are given the more favourable 15% tax withholding by the US on their dividends (versus the standard 30% I believe if a W-8BEN is not completed). New on the W-8BEN are two questions:
City of Birth
Country of Birth
I have banked with RBC-DI since 2007. Prior W-8BEN forms did not ask city and country of birth.
The net has been cast!
My questions for today:
Why is RBC DI asking for country of birth if this information is not required by CRA?
If this information is not required, is it illegal for RBC DI to ask for it?
The questions about city of birth and country of birth on the W-8BEN appear to have been added by RBC DI. I don’t see these questions on the official IRS version of the W-8BEN. Again, if this information is not required, is it legal for RBC-DI to ask?
Admin: please feel free to use as a discussion topic. Asking customers their city and country of birth seems discriminatory if the information is not required by RBC. I suspect The RBC people would squirm if they were pressed publicly on this topic.
The perfect definition of #FATCA Stealth. ‘If you want to do something EVIL, do it inside something BORING.”
Watch this John Oliver video on net neutrality,..
The perfect definition of #FATCA Stealth. ‘If you want to do something EVIL, do it inside something BORING.”
http://youtu.be/fpbOEoRrHyU
@Just Me
I see 2265 Canada FFIs registered. I think credit unions which are deemed-compliant and non-reporting still have to _register_, and would therefore be on this list (eventually).
Proposal by Schumer to add bounty hunters to data privacy problems plaguing the IRS”
http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/data-worries-over-irs-collections-letter-1.8103399
…”We have already seen data security breaches by IRS employees. Entrusting personal information of taxpayers to employees of the private collectors would only attenuate the IRS’s less-than-perfect control over what should be secure data. This is especially dangerous now that Obamacare has effectively made personal health care information a parameter of the taxation system’s databases…”…
(written by a lawyer previously an employee at the IRS)
and,
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/26/opinion/mr-schumer-backs-a-bad-old-idea.html?_r=0
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/20/congress-ignoring-history-considers-turning-over-tax-debts-to-private-collection-agencies/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/19/us-usa-tax-collection-idUSBREA4I0PD20140519
@WhatAmI
and 2265 is the number of the forces aligned against you. Hardly a fair fight.
I noticed this about the French intervening against the DOJ $10b penalty of BNP, but getting nothing. They shouldn’t have been so eager to capitulate on FATCA as they get nothing back out of America.
It is a one way street
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/06/02/french-officials-twist-u-s-arms-in-bank-inquiry/
General Schumer leading the war on tax evasion. No expense is too great to win!
Allison posted the full comments from Koskinen.
http://taxpol.blogspot.ca/2014/06/koskinen-tough-as-nails-on-individuals.html
Tweet for Allison’s Headline should read.
#IRS Koskinen: Tough as Nails on Individuals (DNA People); Cautious and Worrisome on US Multinationals (Paper people) http://bit.ly/1iRWUVC