FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
Participants will need to provide their e-mail address (real or fake) and an alias. The only written rule is that participants must use a same alias each time they post (and not “anonymous” or derivatives thereof).
Bear in mind that any responses that you get from participants is peer-to-peer help, and it is not intended as a replacement for professional advice. Also, the Isaac Brock Society provides this disclaimer: neither the Society nor any of its members are professionals. We offer our advice here only in friendship and we recommend that our readers seek professional advice if they need it.
If you wish to receive an e-mail notification of comments, check the box to that effect when making your first comment.
NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) for earlier discussion.
@Just Me
The Treasury’s “good faith effort” enforcement tool has got EVERYONE guessing!
http://www.sovereignman.com/podcast/007-how-to-destroy-your-financial-system-14381/?inf_contact_key=babf2cfaca633c42f0bbbb469141104435ad10052263c4a23b3ca27b74be1b44
Simon blasts FATCA in the center of this broadcast, which tells you how to destroy your own financial system
Another door closing for US persons… pretty soon… only place will be UBM… Under Bed Mattress
http://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/2342915/redmayne-bentley-closes-door-on-us-clients-ahead-of-fatca-deadline
Mark…
Also posted on ZeroHedge… (It has a wide and influential following)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-06/exactly-how-you-destroy-banking-system
This is only for an FYI.
Usual disclaimer – this is not a recommendation or endorsement of the source or compliance professional.
http://mopsicktaxlaw.blogspot.ca/2014/05/another-fatca-delay-good-for-banks-but.html
‘Wednesday, May 7, 2014
ANOTHER FATCA DELAY: Good for the Banks but Nothing for Americans Abroad ‘
“….The Notice says absolutely nothing about the heavy burden FATCA places on individual taxpayers. It says nothing about whether 85 year old pensioners are at risk for six and seven figure penalties for willful failure to file FBAR’s for past years, or whether Americans abroad will ever get through to anyone at all in Washington on why one size does not fit all when their neighborhood bank is the Royal Bank of Canada, France’s BNP Paribas or the Bank of India.
…”…
“…The most disturbing aspect of the New Republic article is it incorrectly assumes, as so many people do, that FATCA is only about American fat cats who spend all their time on the Riviera beaches or at their Swiss chalets counting their money.
While the message of the Notice is “FATCA is here to stay,” we would respectfully suggest that if the IRS could simply dedicate the same amount of resources to publishing some safe harbors for Americans abroad and recent immigrants to the United States as it did with this ten page notice, it might help repair the now dubious assumption that part of the IRS’s mission statement conveys the concept of “service” to the people it is supposed to serve.
….”…
More on GATCA from The Economist…
The data revolution
That would be GATCA they are talking about, the Rosemary baby from the OECD and FATCAnatic unholy union!
And the irony is, that America after inseminating this monster, will NOT go along with it. 🙂
So for all the capitulating weasel countries. they gotcha, and America will remain the last tax haven standing! Joke is on you! LOL
FATCA compliance type notices start making inroads into the online media or smaller communities inside the US:
This is from a community in NY
http://portchester.patch.com/groups/taxlawyer/p/the-us-turning-up-the-heat-on-citizens-with-israeli-bank-accounts-with-fatca_73878eaf1370893990
Send Elizabeth May a birthday card thank you for her fine work raising FATCA in Parliament repeatedly – for example http://youtu.be/fT2nnMFgUFk .
Her 60 th birthday is coming up http://sgigreenparty.ca/event/elizabeths-birthday-fundraiser/
One updated tally of IGAs so far, and some commentary;
http://profwilliambyrnes.com/2014/05/11/2-new-igas-brings-it-to-64-brides-148-bridesmaids-remain-in-waiting-and-other-important-fatca-updates/
‘2 new IGAs brings it to 64 brides, 148 bridesmaids remain in waiting … and other important FATCA updates’
by William Byrnes,
May 11, 2014
@badger…
On linkedin Byrnes asked in his headline..
What if 148 Non-IGA countries don’t agree an IGA by July 1?
to which I replied… (Not sure why I bother anymore. None of the FCC is reading these days, as they have all sold out have their noses stuck in the regulation books..)
If you changed brokerage firm but held the same stock does the stock ownership indices follow you.
Do public traded companies, who are in a brokerage account, have to check for indices in addition to the FFI? The FFI may not have USA indices but the public trading stock may have USA indices in past.
George111. The answer to your second question is no. I can’t make sense of your first question.
Thanks KalC
The first sentence was just a statement to frame the only question.
Your answer matches my reading as well, I do not want to give bad advice.
I think you give the best advice here.
Hopefully someone who can post a new thread can describe the sequence of nasty IRS letters. This may help to calm down people who receive them. The only people who may have to respond are the people who may be in trouble (US only citizen) due to 1995 USA Canada Tax treaty. My understanding is that the CRA will only pursue people, who have USA employment income. Can you confirm that?
I do not know, if you were an ex-Green carder like me, but if you do not have the I-407 form you can request from CRA how long you were a Canadian tax resident or when you returned to Canada. You may also pulled up your SIN records. This information can be helpful especially since the CRA exempt even legitimate Green Card holder who reside in Canada from being classified as USA persons.
Perhaps JT knew something of this when he looked like an idiot in answering my question at a “Meet and Greet” in Okotoks, AB: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/23/mps-ted-hsu-and-scott-brison-with-q121-and-q127-understand-fatca-but-does-the-leader-of-the-liberal-party-justin-trudeau/
**************
I was just referring (above) to one part of GeorgeIII comment. He asks me to copy his whole comment, so here it is:
Calgary 411 copy my whole comment that I wanted KalC to Confirm this statement. I think I saw a thread at this website that the Conservative say they will only pursue the 1995 USA -Canada tax treaty for employment income only, whether the liberal will follow this policy is another question.
Even if FATCA is thrown out by Supreme Court, the obligation under the 1995 USA Canada Tax treaty still stands unless it is included in the court challenge. This agreement would have allowed collection by CRA in Harden case if it was in effect in 1963. The Liberal are buddy buddy with the Democrats they would have negotiated a worse treaty. Example they signed the 1995 USA-Canada tax treaty when no other signed a similar agreement.
http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/7322/index.do
Israeli are smart and doing the right thing:
See that article
http://www.israelvalley.com/news/2014/05/13/43273/israel-anonymat-pour-la-regularisation-de-capitaux-occultes
In the wake of the OECD exchange of information, they give the opportunity to people to come into compliance free of penalties and anonymously for a year. Now, that’s the right thing to do!
“Les pays membres de l’Organisation de coopération et de développement économiques sont sur la voie de l’échange automatique de renseignements à des fins fiscales. Avant que soit mise en place cette mesure radicale, l’Administration fiscale israélienne élabore un système de déclaration volontaire et anonyme.
Ainsi, les personnes physiques et morales qui détiennent des biens à l’étranger non déclarés en Israël ont la possibilité de se régulariser, et ce sans être identifiés.”
“The member countries of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development are on the road to automatic exchange of information for tax purposes. Before any implementation of this radical measure, the Israeli Tax Authority is developing a reporting system voluntary and anonymous.
Thus, natural and legal persons who hold assets abroad unreported in Israel have the ability to regulate, without being identified.”
Treasury is going easy on FFIs for at least a year. Why don’t they do the same with people with foreign accounts?
@noone, re;
“Why don’t they do the same with people with foreign accounts?”
That is because the FFIs (ex. CBA, IIAC) have the direct ear of our government, and a war chest to pay for dedicated lobbying and donations. The 30% withholding would cause a diplomatic incident.
We however, are discounted as we are only loosely connected individuals. There is penalty revenue to pluck from us. And the Harperites (like the government of Australia and NZ, and others), have signalled to Washington that they are willing to throw our bodies down in front of the FATCA bus in order to forestall it arriving at the door of the Banksters and their kin. We are the sacrifice so that the Banksters don’t get a kneecapping at the hands of the US Treasury.
FATCA is ridiculous in the first place. The United States should be adopting a residence-based tax system as opposed to a citizenship based system like 99 percent of the rest of the world. This legislation will only further impede on the national sovereignty of other nations and further fuel American resentment. FATCA has potential implications extending beyond ‘American persons’, this is an extremely expensive compliance program to enforce and customers of these banking institutions will most likely have to bear the weight of this in increase banking fees.
Offshore banking is a serious issue, but the American governments need to target the real culprits, increase corporate taxation and those that have complex methods to divert income reporting. There are many Americans in Canada who have no ties other then its their place of birth. Is it really fair to tax them for economic productivity that was not generated in the United States? absolutely medieval thinking from the United States government.
OECD is separate from FATCA.
Israel just signed a FATCA agreement.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-reaches-agreement-with-us-on-tax-act/
“US citizens — or dual Israeli-American citizens — who have accounts in Israeli banks are now required to sign documents authorizing the bank to reveal information about their assets to the IRS, the US Treasury, and the Justice Department. Customers who refuse to comply will be issued a bank check for the amount of money in their account, which will be closed down.”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/americans-in-israel-to-face-fatca-irs-collectors/
It appears worse than our FATCA
@GeorgeIII
Those bunker buster bombs from the US are now busting open the banks of the Americans who provide them! You wonder when and if AIPAC is ever going to weigh in on the jihad against their own in Israel by the IRS
@GeorgeIII, It’s not actually in the Swiss IGA, but the Swiss banks have been doing that for years. From the few reports I’ve seen lately banks are now freezing between 50 and 100% of an account for withholding purposes until they get the paperwork they demand rather than closing accounts immediately.
The IGA says they must report any non-compliant accounts anyway, but there is provision in the FATCA act itself for the IRS to demand accounts be closed.
“48. Are other FFIs planning to close the accounts of U.S. persons?
FATCA provides that an FFI should close an account holder’s account if the holder of the
account fails to provide the FFI with a waiver of any foreign law that would prevent the FFI from
collecting the required FATCA documentation. To date, the IRS and U.S. Treasury have only
issued guidance on reporting of accounts that have not provided the required FATCA
documentation.”
http://www.deloitte.com/assets/dcom-unitedstates/local%20assets/documents/tax/us_tax_fatca_faqs_061711.pdf
It sounds as if Israel has decided not to bother with the initial reporting side and just gone with close the account as part of their IGA.
Canada FATCA does not permit closing of recalcitrant account they may forward name & birth date to CRA then to USA if you refuse to foreword SSN on existing accounts.
Canadian FFI can not even withhold on USA assets.
We also have a provision to get a better IGA, if another country negotiate a better deal. Do the countries with the European FATCA have that provision? Are they trying to get the Canadian deal?
@GeorgeIII
Under the Model 2 IGA agreement, there’s something called the “most favoured nation” clause that assures that no country can get a better deal than another.