US expat tax and FBAR: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about US Expat tax and FBAR.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became to large for our software to handle well. See US expat tax and FBAR: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One.
I have something to share that may be of interest to many here, what would you guys recommend I use to post/link a pdf?
I think This may work…
http://www.filedropper.com/bnpletters
Have posted this also on Relinquishment and Renunciation thread.
Have not had time to read through this, but it appears to be useful:
‘Who is a U.S. Person? Disparities between U.S.tax and immigration law’
by
Henry P. Bubel, Jenny Longman, Lisa M. Koenig, Nikki Dryden,and Michelle Muñoz-Machen
Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler LLP, Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen & Loewy LLP
“This article is intended to provide an overview of the intersection
of U.S. tax and immigration law in defining who is a U.S. person,
and some of the pitfalls that result from the differing and often
competing definitions under the two codes of law.”
http://www.pbwt.com/files/Uploads/Documents/Who%20is%20a%20U.S.%20Tax%20Person_Bloomberg%20BNA.pdf?utm_source=Mondaq&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=inter-article-link
Badger –
“Appears to be useful” …
… but does not appear to be useful to the sect that strives to uphold one-sided belief in the backdated CLN loophole in absence of court case or formal IRS pronouncement.
As ever, yours for realistic wallowing in a sea of uncertainties, swigging a bottle of rum while chanting Sauve qui peut.
@USXCanada
translated. “run for your life or everyman for himself.”
This song came to my mind too For What’s It’s Worth. Buffalo Springfield
=””Paranoia strikes deep / Into your life it will creep / It starts when you’re always afraid / You step out of line, the man come and take you away” speak of the control that the government had over the people of the United States, and how those people were feeling at the time. The chorus, “I think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound / Everybody look what’s going down”
@All,
Am placing this link here as well, which was made by ‘@ghost66’ on another thread.
Purpose is not to alarm, but forewarned is forearmed.
@usxcanada, you might be interested in the article for your collection. It does not appear from the details provided to be merely fearmongering, but more in the same ominous 1984-esque vein of the NSA, IRS, Treasury contempt for due process, the US constitution, etc.;
‘Tax dodgers beware: IRS could be watching your social media’
“The IRS is said to be data mining Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and other sites for info that could come handy in audits….”
http://www.cnet.com/news/tax-dodgers-beware-irs-could-be-watching-your-social-media/
and leads also to this equally interesting story about the IRS policies on e-mail surveillance http://www.cnet.com/news/irs-chief-well-rewrite-our-e-mail-search-policy/
The link was originally posted at IBS (without comment), at;
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/04/15/irs-says-is-ok-to-own-pfics-through-a-us-tax-deferred-account/comment-page-1/#comment-1457336
“The Next Shoe Just Dropped: Court Denies Attorney-Client Privilege”
– http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-19/next-shoe-just-dropped-court-denies-attorney-client-privelege
I just recently became aware that I am still considered a U.S. person and should be filing U.S tax. I am now in the process of officially ending this claim they feel they have on me. I have been on the IRS site for many hours to get an understanding of this foreign tax regime. It looks like I am required to get a social security number even though I have never worked there or plan to. Is this correct?
The other question I have is am I required to inform them of my husbands tax situation in Canada. We have been married for three years. He was born in Canada and always resided here. We have no jointly owned or shared accounts or investments at this time in Canada or abroad.
Last but not least… Is the streamlined filing a better way to go or do I just file 5 years.
Cheers
Briggs,
How are you considered a U.S. Person in Canada? Before you jump into any compliance stream, determine that. There is a lot of information on this site that will be helpful to you in deciding what you need to do. Take your time. Read, read, read and then ask questions here. There are others here who will likely have situations similar to yours.
If you decide to renounce or CLAIM RELINQUISHMENT if you can (depending on your circumstances for ability to do so), you do need to also file a Form 8854 (http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8854/ar01.html), certifying tax compliance:
If you and your husband have no joint financial accounts, you should be able to file as Married Filing Separately (http://www.irs.gov/uac/Eight-Facts-About-Filing-Status).
There is discussion on this in comments starting here: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/expat_tax/comment-page-62/#comment-1155618.
Also, comments starting at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/comment-page-86/#comment-1161009.
Others here will better be able to answer questions about the Streamlined (but your will need five years rather than three if expatriating) or even filing back returns or filing returns going forward and not in a IRS compliance program. (i.e., see: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/04/21/ne-exeat-republica-the-next-irs-tactic-vs-expats-and-accidental-americans/comment-page-2/#comment-1507735)
Briggs. Calgary has started the complex answers to a complex situation. There are a million different stories here!
First. There is no reason to inform them about your husband’s affairs.
Now the hard part. Why are you considered a US person? Do you wish to be a US person?. There are many people who are simply ignoring the US position. Perhaps you could as well. Avoid OVDI like the plaque. Perhaps ‘streamlined’ is safer but some think it is a trap.
Just getting a SS number is a right royal pain.
Remember the IRS haven’t the resources,time or interest to go after minnows residing in Canada so take your time to inform yourself. Don’t trust the IRS website alone. The more you learn, the better you will feel.
Thanks Calgary 411,
Yes please remove my first name.
I believe the US considers me one of theirs based on I was born in the US 50 yrs ago. Father is american, mother, Canadian. Parents divorced and Mom moved back to Canada when I was three. I have lived here all my life. Canada has and always will be my home. Only recently did I make it official. I put it on my bucket list when C.I.C made it mandatory to have a PR card.
I did inform in the Calgary consulate of my decision to become a Canadian citizen with the intention of relinquishing my US citizenship.
I have never had a SS#. Never needed one.
I have never considered myself a US citizen. It was my place of birth that’ all.
If I must be compliant then so be it. I think I have a year after I renounce/ relinquish to deal with that issue?
How is it determined who has to renounce or who can relinquish?
Thanks
Briggs…It appears you have already relinquished.
you stated ” I did inform in the Calgary consulate of my decision to become a Canadian citizen with the intention of relinquishing my US citizenship.” That is a relinquishment. You are no longer a US citizen. I hope you got it in writing. You should be able to get a CLN if you want.
Whether or not you bother with anything further depends on how much time and trouble and money you wish to spend.
@Briggs,
There have been no reports of anyone having trouble becoming compliant via Streamlined or QD (quiet disclosure). Streamlined is the official way to get back into compliancy, so my preference would be to go that route, YMMV.
As mentioned above, even though Streamlined only requires 3 years of returns, you will need 5 for a clean exit from the US tax system. But, you can submit more than 3 years of returns in Streamlined.
As a US citizen, you must use a SSN to file tax returns. I don’t know what happens if you renounce first and thus become an alien and ineligible for a SSN. It may work that you could then apply for an ITIN, which is far easier to get than a SSN, and use that; however, I don’t believe we’ve heard from anyone who has done this.
Good luck!
Re renunciation and relinquishment (don’t know how you informed the Calgary consulate of your decision that you became a Canadian citizen with the intention of relinquishing your US citizenship — Duke is right, that would be your “claim of relinquishment” if they accepted that!): http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/relinquishing-acts-performed-prior-to-2004/ (though yours was likely after 2004 from your comment, there is other information there and reports of experiences of others, forms, etc. at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/.
This is another relevant resource: http://maplesandbox.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Synopisis-Ricardson-London-Ontario.pdf.
@Briggs
It sounds like you only recently became a Canadian citizen. If so, then submission of form 8854 and all that that entails is required for a clean exit from the US tax system (rules changed in 2004). Without filing 8854, you will always be on the hook to the IRS, so make sure you fully understand the consequences of doing nothing further (note that merely obtaining a CLN to document your relinquishment does NOT get you off the hook).
@Duke of Devon,
I will keep the letter I wrote, scanned and sent to them and archive their replies.
When it comes to filing I would rather not. I am not wealthy by any means. I am just concerned down the road when I die if my children might be forced to deal with this .
Briggs & Duke of Devon –
Case study in loosey-goosey rush to comfort that says just blow it all off.
Hey DoD, what if Briggs communicated the decision to undertake the process ahead of the fact? What if Briggs sent a letter that was never received (or more likely, never acknowledged)? What if Briggs just did a phone call? What if Briggs has no physical evidence, only recollection? What if Calgary consulate dismisses whatever “evidence” may exist?
Warning to all Brock visitors. Never tie your future to off-hand virtual-armchair “advice” from one pseudonymous pusher who tends to tout the easy way out.
@Briggs, My understanding is that if your mother was Canadian, then you have been a Canadian since birth which rules out the option to relinquish.
Calgary,
I informed them in writing, and also at the same time sent them the two forms needed to book a appointment to make it official on their end. They got back to me in a week with a date which I accepted and then they sent me a relinquishment appt confirmed notice.
Well I am confused. How can someone born to a Canadian become a Canadian citizen as an adult? I thought birth to a Canadian parent automatically bestowed Canadian citizenship on the child from birth.
WhiteKat,
I think my Mom would of had to register my birth in Canada as well which she never did.
Good catch, WhiteKat.
@Briggs – What exactly did you mean by “Only recently did I make it official.” ? Were you naturalized as Canadian, or did you merely apply for a Citizenship Certificate?
Note that due to changes in the Canadian Citizenship Act in 2009, you are considered to be a Canadian citizen from birth, so you would have only needed to apply for a Citizenship Certificate.
So, I wonder then, if one’s parents did not register one as a Canadian at birth, then is there any way to get ‘caught’ during either the process where one attempts to ‘become’ a Canadian (when in reality one already is), or when one attempts to relinquish US citizenship (for example does consul ask where one’s parents were born)?
I think Briggs needs to be careful assuming that relinquishment is the way out.
@tdott – When I began the process I was never aware of the Citizenship Certificate route. Could have I opted to go this way, perhaps. C.I.C never discussed options that I may have had. I have always considered myself to be a naturalized Canadian, not sure what the legal side of government has to say on this matter.