US expat tax and FBAR: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about US Expat tax and FBAR.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became to large for our software to handle well. See US expat tax and FBAR: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One.
@abusedExpat
That is referencing the story that has been posted here on ISB. Glad to see that they are picking it up.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/06/04/irs-systematically-targeted-overseas-americans/
Good article there AbusedExpat, despite some grammatical/spelling errors. Interesting that he can’t send money from Belgium to France via internet banking. I haven’t heard of that one.
AbusedExpat,
….heading on over!
WhiteKat,
Great comment on the HuffPost article! You sure didn’t pull any punches.
AbusedExpat,
Thanks.
I hope more Brockers add their comments to the new “HuffingtonPost article: ‘Should Lex Americana Be Universal? FATCA Turns Foreign Banks Into Tax Informants ”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/georges-ugeux/should-lex-americana-be-u_b_3475185.html
@WhiteKat..
Ok, I posted something on this too.
BTW, the source for this article was here..
http://clsbluesky.law.columbia.edu/2013/06/19/should-lex-americana-be-universal-fatca-turns-foreign-banks-into-tax-informants/
My comment is currently in moderation. I wrote…
I am surprised to see this article. The MSM have shown a remarkable indifference to a story that has world wide repercussions. It is leading to a global GATCA.
Recent G8 summit meeting communiques, with reference to ending Corporate beneficial ownership opacity, and creation of a multilateral automatic tax data exchange regime, got the wind in its sails from this unilateral FATCA action on the U.S. part.
The reciprocity blow back of FATCA is now targeted right back at the U.S. homeland, its financial institutions and Corporations.
Congress never mentioned anything about a domestic FATCA compliance regime to match the one it was imposing on the rest of the world. However, Treasury has promised foreign governments the same reporting reciprocity out of U.S. Financial Institutions that it demands of them. http://bit.ly/15b3jGp
Wonder what Congress thinks about that? The domestic FATCA equivalent, (DATCA) is currently on page 202 of the Obama budget. http://1.usa.gov/12YGdoG
Depending on your POV, maybe this is good. The OECD is certainly riding the tidal wave trend against offshore evasion and avoidance. Obama supports it.
Will this gambit work? Will Congress go along? They opened the FATCA flood gates themselves, so now how will they respond to the bore tide sweeping inland? Unintended consequence, or a planned flood?
One thing we know for sure politicians are good at riding the trend waves on surfboards constructed of hypocrisy.
JustMe,
Your comment on the HuffPost article was insightful and witty- too bad it will likely be lost on most who read it (if they READ it at all).
@WhiteKat…
I must admit, and I am at the stage of saying, :”What’s the point?” I have come to think comment opportunities for stories online, are simply a way to pacify the masses, but have no impact at all in the RealPolitik world. We all have opinions, and facts be damned when it comes to commenting online. No one is ever persuaded by any of the 100’s of comments I have ever made or endless arguments on twitter. Not sure how much longer I will keep this up. I do it mostly for my own entertainment, is all. When I bore of it, I will probably just stop and get off.
@JustMe,
I don’t think you are wasting your time, though I understand how it feels futile at times. However, just because you don’t get a lot of positive feedback, does not mean people are not listening – not every one who learns something from your words will post a comment in reply. Also, you are helping to educate not only ‘Homelanders’, but also ‘US persons’ who are just starting to become aware of the pickle they are in.
I hope you don’t get bored, because you are contributing to the cause even more than you know.
@Whitekat,
I suppose you may be right, and I want you to be right. I occasionally get feedback like I did the other day that shows it must help someone. I got a call out of the blue, from a guy in Israel, following me on twitter and comments here. He went through some efforts to search me out, (not that I am hard to find) looking for help and advice. He could have just called the NSA, and they would have been helpful, I am sure…
So, I take your point, that sometimes, somewhere, someone gets benefit of a comment launched into the ethernet. You never know where it lands, if what impact it might have, and maybe, if only occasionally it helps someone, it is worth it. I will keep telling myself that.
@ JustMe,
“You never know where it lands, what impact it might have, and maybe, if only occasionally it helps someone, it is worth it. I will keep telling myself that.”
Agreed. 🙂
@Just Me, you helped me tremendously. Thank you.
I read somewhere in this thread that soon it will be mandatory for FBAR’s to be filed electronically. Tax preparers in Canada cannot file taxes or FBAR’s electronically on behalf of clients. How then are people like my parents, in their seventies and never touched a computer, supposed to file these things electronically??? How can they mandate something like this? Will tax preparers be able file the FBAR’s on behalf of clients?
And me, Just Me.
You got us interested in FATCA, and helped us understand what was going on beyond the implications for us as individuals. You have helped countless readers here and elsewhere, by sharing your experiences, knowledge and insights, as also Sally, Moby, ij, and now Not that Lisa have.
You can never know all the good you have done, but I can tell you that you and others at IBS – the IBS founders like Petros, and all the others commenting here – whether even just briefly or by being authors, or by sharing resources, or sharing experiences, observations, and information – have helped to shine light on the deliberate and obdurate opacity of the IRS. You have helped us through your very existence on many a dark night. You told us of Nina Olson, the Taxpayer Advocate, and of the ACA. Untold numbers benefited from that. We learned so much that helped us to try and help ourselves.
Think of the butterfly effect – When it treated you so unjustly, the IRS and Treasury caused ripples and results that have gone far beyond what it gained in the short term – with its relentless persecution of minnows and others with minor, inadvertent errors trying to become ‘compliant’. It has earned itself the close attention of all those who read and participate at IBS. It has earned the US the utmost disrespect of those like myself, and our Canadian family and friends. The US has created earnest lifelong anti-ambassadors, and fostered political opposition to US ambitions in the non-US countries where we live and are citizens or permanent residents.
Just Me, I owe you and all the others here at IBS a huge debt of gratitude. I will continue to do my best to pay that forward in my own way as I am able.
@Marie, I think we must mount a campaign to alert the Taxpayer Advocate of this problem through the SAMS system http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/About-TAS http://apps.irs.gov/app/samsnet/IssueQualification.jsp .
Many are not tech savvy enough to submit FBARs electronically, or have the equipment and resources to do so. I meet people everyday who don’t use or have a computer or internet access. Why should they be forced use one in a public setting like a library or an internet cafe – and expose all their banking and personal information to identity theft and exploitation? Why should they be forced to rely on others to help them do this?
Especially with the draconian and confiscatory penalty structure of the FBAR.
@Badger…
Thanks for that comment, and it wasn’t necessary, but appreciated. It was enough to inspire me to make a couple more comments on HuffPo tonight. LOL and by the way, you make some very eloquent statements here on IBS that I both learn from and use, so your work doesn’t go to waste either.
@Chris… You have helped yourself through a lot of due diligence, and helped me with a lot of articles I would have missed if you didn’t post them. So we all contribute.
@WhiteKat…. I put a couple more responses to response I had. Of course they are in moderation.
@JustMe and other IBS commentaters
I want you to know that your comments both here at IBS and on some other websites are read and reflected upon. I know it is difficult to decide when to comment and when to not. For me that decsion usually depends on the “tone” of the other comments. Then again, that is “democracy” – everyone has the right to comment even when what they say seems inappropriate (both in terms of language use and content). The question of whether the possibilty to comment on more general interest websites is (also) a way to placate and avoid other types of protest is relevant. I am grateful that the IBS moderators keep this website “focused on the topic” . I have learned so much and been helped so much by IBS. Very grateful – Best wishes from allou
Thank you Badger. I’ve sent a note to SAMS explaining the issue. There has to be exceptions for the elderly, disabled, people who don’t have access to computers and the internet, etc.
The research and angles that these folks bring in are irreplaceable with arguments to politicians. This research upon regulations and laws is superior to the research done by the politicians making regulations and laws
@Marie, it’s worse if they both have to sign the forms because the e-filing doesn’t allow for it. They have to file separately. Here’s the link:
http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/nr/html/20110717.html
So, given that it’s a $500 fine if you continue to use paper I assume that means they’d have to pay $1,000 for them to both paper file. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Thank you Madea Fleecestealer. I sent a note to SAMS as Badger suggested. Maybe if more people complain, there will be exceptions made.
@Marie,
This will not solve your problem, but if one of your parents is not a US Person (see definition in FBAR Instructions), then that person does not have to sign the FBAR (because FBARs are filed by “US Persons”).
A joint account between US and non-US Person still has to be disclosed, but the non-US Person does not have to sign.
Thank you IRSCompliant. Unfortunately, they are both US citizens.
@Just Me: Thank you for the enormous efforts you have made on our behalf. I have come to trust and respect your comments very much. With best wishes and thanks.
@Sad-in-UK..
Thanks for the comment. I would have never known someone in the UK out there paid a bit of attention to anything I might say, so appreciate you coming out of the wood work, as they say. 🙂
@Allou… I too often debate whether or not to bother especially at huffington post when I read the quality of comments and say to myself, “What’s the point!” 🙂