US expat tax and FBAR: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Please ask your questions here about US Expat tax and FBAR.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became to large for our software to handle well. See US expat tax and FBAR: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One.
with regards to the vast majority of compliance condors: Hyperbole and exaggeration is one thing, creating an alternative universe is something else entirely. Culturally constructed ignorance, created by special interest groups to create confusion and suppress the truth in a societally important issue. It is especially useful to sow seeds of doubt in complex scientific issues by publicizing inaccurate or misleading data. #agnotology
It still amazes me that even in 2016 so much garbage about #FBAR and #FATCA is being spread by so called professionals incl. my “friends” tax lawyers.
@Equitykingkong, re;
“Hyperbole and exaggeration is one thing, creating an alternative universe is something else entirely.”
And so interesting that as more accurate information has been made available (for ex. not the case back in 2011), the compliance condor alternative universes continue to appear, their creators happy to dupe the public.
Well folks I was compliant but no way I can afford the account fees this year I’m broke and grociers r more important for me the then to send in a form saying I owe no tax.. To a place I will never live at again .. I am canadian and I guess I’m now uncompliant.. I’m at a lost but it was bound to not be able to afford it the fees I know there’s no then they can get from me as long as I stay in Canada.. Been along time reader all was to scared to comment.. Thanks all. Any advice?
wonky,
You might feel better and more in control to tell your story as a Witness fr the ADCS Canadian litigation, saying just what you just said. Welcome and thanks for your comment!
Wonky –
Since you’ve been compliant up to this point, consider a do-it-yourself approach. Especially since you have the previous year to use as template. You’re owing nothing, it’s just paperwork, and the IRS probably could care less about any of it – except maybe for a red flag of clear noncompliance. So what if you don’t really understand any of it. Your “professional” probably didn’t either. Do your best, plug in numbers, don’t waste a lot of time on the effort, toss it in the mail, be done. You’ll probably never hear anything back ever. If you do, and the situation becomes unresolvable, the bridge burns then, and you’re no worse off.
Well I thought about doing it myself then the fear of making a mistake and the threats of fines .. It almost seems to best not to do it .. And ignore and try to move on with my life its not worth this depression it continues to put on me.. I think everyone that ignores it will live a longer life I dunno this pointless stress isn’t worth it for anyone.. I live in a border town where it seems to be every other person is american of some sorts but doesn’t file and couldn’t careless and looks at me like I’m some conspiracy but case when I mention it… And to Calgary I openly admit being a witness I’m to much of a coward for that.. It took me 3years just to post on here
wonky,
You’re certainly not a coward. That you and others can’t come forward as witnesses is very understood. Damn the circumstances that put you in this US CBT situation. I hope you can somehow find a way to ignore this whole absurd US issue as much as you can – harder to do when you’ve already been in compliance. But, stay in touch here to let us know how you are doing. Those here DO understand and can relate to what you are going through — if that’s of any solace to you.
@Wonky
A Brocker was once interviewed by a radio person in Canada who himself was a US person filing from Canada (sorry I can’t remember who and when I read this exactly). The radio interviewer mentioned that FOR YEARS he’s been sending 1040’s back to the US with just “income earned in Canada” scrawled across the top of it and nothing else (or something to that effect). I was shocked to hear that the IRS accepted this, as evidently they had never gotten back to this person in the years he had been sending them this way.
The IRS has turned a blind eye to its non-residents in the past. Budgetary restraints may just see a continuation of this kind of behaviour – in spite of FATCA. But who knows. Which only affirms what so many have claimed here – that your problems only begin when you try to be US tax compliant. Unfortunately there’s no guarantee that by not filing your problems will end there.
Stop filing in protest can result in being deemed delinquent, whereas filing to the best of your ability may result in nothing, or at worst what? Worth exploring. Will they audit you? Will they provide a substitute return for you? If you are found to be in arrears of more than $50K will they revoke your US passport? Would you be barred from the US? Would any of that matter to you?
Here’s an idea that might put a smile on your face. Could you imagine the effect of 8 million people each sending a 1040 with “income earned in another country” or “nil” scrawled across the top?
@wonky
I’m with usxcanada, seriously consider filing a DIY return based off of last year’s return. Get a friend to help if needed. Ask as many questions about it as you want here at Brock.
Then seriously consider this: beg, borrow, or steal the money to renounce.
Renouncing in compliance means it’s over, done, finito. Once you renounce (and later file the final return), there’s a good chance the stress will evaporate as if it was never there, and you can get on with your life.
That’s my 2c. As always, YMMV.
tdott says,
“Renouncing in compliance means it’s over, done, finito. Once you renounce (and later file the final return), there’s a good chance the stress will evaporate as if it was never there, and you can get on with your life.”
This has been my experience as well. There is much more of a sense of being able to operate as a free agent in the universe after renouncing and filing final tax forms. However it depends on one’s financial and personal situation. Mine was fairly simple and my stress did evaporate. For others, circumstances may be more complicated.
I almost had a nervous breakdown with all the worrying, but I definitely felt a huge relief after I received my CLN and especially after filing the final paperwork.
Today should in fact be the day my statutes of limitation finally close for my amended returns and late-filed FBARs. For a while I was scared that the IRS would pursue me for not having entered the OVDI, which would have ruined me.
I’m not sure when my remaining open statutes of limitations will close for 8854, but it will either be next summer or June of 2020. I realize that the audit window for tax returns is generally 3 years, but if someone renounces, I believe it could be lengthened to 6 years like FBAR.
Hey wonky i dunno im trying the doit my self approach as well now but uhhh looks easy very easy until i sit down a start doing it then uhh not so easy but im not the sharpest knife in the block … 1040 and 1116 but i dont get the carry over worksheet … im in canada border town as well do i take all of my canada income and tax and convert it,, i might go over the bridge to the US and get a accountant over there to doit the prices seem stupid but more affordable then getting it done here….. any thoughts on getting it done there? 5 min ride across a bridge…… that or be like everyone else in my town and say why bother anymore dunno seems to work for them they sleep well at night.. most i hear is well if they catch up to you they could pull your US passport so?
life was so much easier 6 years ago!!!! almost makes you wonder what kind of toll this has put on our Canadian health care system i can almost guarantee the the numbers of depression and stress related health issues have SKY ROCKETED….
Re Bruno’s comment that there must be a lot out there who have suffered medical problems:
If you are a Canadian who has suffered a medical illness because of the above nonsense, wish to be a Witness in our Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit, and agree to disclose your name and medical illness in a written affidavit made public, you can contact me at:
Stephen.Kish.Chair@adcs-adsc.ca
from Phil Hodgen:
I am in the process of rewriting my Exit Tax book. Drafts come every two weeks on this list. You can watch it being written by going to http://exittax.com/book.
do you have to do the 1116 carry over worksheet or can i ignore that?
@Bruno, if I remember correctly, we are in the same city. If you feel you MUST have someone prepare your US taxes, I’d ask around to see if anyone that works across the ditch has someone prepare them on the US side cheap. My previous inquiries on the Cdn side wouldn’t even provide a starting price point.
If you feel you MUST submit US tax forms, anyone you pay is probably as likely to make a mistake as you, and you’ll still be liable for their mistake. After paying for the preparation.
I guess IF you have a US passport you wish to keep, it may make sense to submit returns. If you don’t have a US passport, who cares about a foreign government?
There’s also the Clinton Defense. As we have seen today, law in the US is unimportant. It’s only important in the US for those who choose to follow it. What is important in the US is your desired result. How you get there is apparently now inconsequential.
no i have a canadian passport with us birth place,, lady i had doing them previous years quit doing them…
so im at a cross road id like to ignore the whole thing but i dunno so many mixed awnsers as dumb as it sounds im looking for guidance of what to do or not to … and yes @THE MOM we r from the same area i believe ….=) and IM SURE YOU probably know about 30 people who r in the same boat that dont care about it ….. so with never owing tax how likely is one to ever even hear anything if they stopped ?
Bruno, have you tried Turbo tax?
@Duke of Devon no i havent i didnt think it was even possible for form 1040 and 1116 aboard
from reading all of your replies to post you seem to know your facts more so then I
if you were in my situation would you just stop and say screw it??? or do the DIY approach to the best of your knowledge even if its not MUCH! and use last year as a template
and drop it in the mail and be done?
you got my respect!!
@Bruno Turbo Tax is definitely worth having a look at. I am a DIY relinquisher– I haven’t filed in the US since I left there in the early 1990s. My background before medicine includes accounting (among other things). For “fun”, I had a look at it on line– if your financial life is fairly straight forward, I would suggest having a look at it. I would be prepared to omit things most Canadians have like RRSPs, TFSAs, RESPs to keep it all simple and avoid the IRS scalping. The wonderful thing about Turbo Tax is you can play with the numbers until bottom line ends up with a number you are happy with. If Turbo Tax is good enough for former Treasury Secretary Timothy Geitner, it should be good enough for you!
@BC DOC thanks what is a DIY relinquisher exactly? i like to hear more about that
and messed around with the forms tonight print outs… using last years as a guide 1040 and 1116
seemed to take me 35 min to complete …… am i missing something ? seems you just convert your income earned to us dollar then your tax paid to us dollar …..
i have never done any canadian or us tax myself before always been done by a accountant
dunno ..
Bruno. Make your best effort and mail it in. You won’t ever hear from them again.
I have been trying to research the hell out of this and in Canada won’t assist in the collection of fines penalties …. Should i quit stressing and quit and move on?
And if it comes to threats from the 3 letter organization ignore them toss them in the fire pit …. And just never return to the states ? The stress this has done already unrevearsable health is suffering marriage is suffering I’ve turned into miserable person towards everyone
@wonky I’m sorry you are having such a hard time. The stress is terrible. Many are feeling the negative impacts on health, loss of joy etc. You can just do what you can do and try to find and remember the good things in your life. Try to find something that interests you and gives you pleasure that you can do every day to help decrease the stress. Try to get your life back one small step at a time. It’s very difficult. Who could have imagined that our own government, Canada, would do these horrific things to ordinary honest, law abiding citizens. Unforgivable.