Entering the US
Ask your questions about Entering the US (before or after renunciation/relinquishment) here.
This thread will be focused closely on Entering the US questions and answers. If the conversation starts to ramble, those comments will be moved to another thread.
Previous Entering the US thread
Previous Related Thread: Dealing with Banking, Consulate and Entering the US
As someone who was “flagged” electronically in Canada via a pre- USA clearance automated passport machine as having a US birthplace (but a Canadian passport), I expect that EVERY time I was to use that machine the results would be the same. (most large hubs use them) I cannot afford to renounce, and thus feel perpetually banned from visiting family and in particular my 2 yr. old grandchild. A truly disturbing situation with no conceivable resolution in my world.
Hi Karen.
Were you not permitted to enter the US as a result of being flagged?
I was treated to a nasty power-trip and a warning of the “this better not happen again” sort and allowed on my way to the US. Just very fearful of forfeiting a ticket to travel back there someday because someone else decides to REALLY power trip!
@Karen
You will not be barred from entry. You will be told to obtain a US passport. That’s all.
While US law states that US citizens must use a US passport when entering the country, no penalty has been defined for breaking that law. So the worst you can expect is a grumpy lecture from CBP officers.
It’s a bit of a Catch-22 for the authorities. If they don’t believe you to be a US citizen, they have no reason not to let you in. If they believe you to be a US citizen, they aren’t allowed to keep you out. They might give you a lecture, but if they are particularly dumb and don’t know their own rules they might say that you cannot enter without a US passport, which is not true.
In your case, you have two easy options if you wish to continue flying south to visit family: one, get yourself a US passport and sail through unmolested; two, continue using your Canadian passport but be prepared for occasional delays and lectures.
Thanks for the comment/reply. As someone who committed the relinquishing act of obtaining Canadian citizenship at a time when having dual citizenship wasn’t even on the table (’74), I NEVER intend to own a US passport (though I DO have an Irish one that I also cherish). My loyalties and my citizenship lie in Canada and I do want to believe that a dose of lecturing is all I might face in crossing that damn border again!
If it’s any consolation, I had the lecture once (relatively polite though) some years ago but chose to ignore it, and have had no problems continuing to use my Canadian passport with US birthplace, they’ve never said another word. That being said I’ve avoided the place since Trump so haven’t tried any automated scanners on pre-clearance, only the old paper slips that you carry up to the agent. Even then I was “busted” on a Canadian passport, had the number entered into their records, but continued using it afterwards without any grief at all. They really aren’t too organized, and they are forbidden to bar a US citizen from entry.
@Karen
I wonder if the US might suddenly decide, as Canada did a couple of years ago to require those it considers its citizens to enter its country on its passport. Canada obviously doesn’t think it’s a catch-22 situation.
I once asked a US border agent why they warn against not entering on a US passport and was told that without doing so you will be treated as a visitor. I suspect you are fine with that!
Conversely, I once presented a US passport and was subjected to the same grilling visitors get (where you going? How long are you staying for? etc) Go figure.
Well then keep using your Canadian passport, but be prepared for arguments – and schedule enough time that you won’t miss a connection.
You can basically say to them that they have two options:
One, they can recognize that you relinquished US citizenship when you became Canadian in 1974, but that you cannot afford to obtain a CLN to document this fact. Then ask them to admit you as a Canadian. (Be aware however that they are free at any time to not admit any Canadian for any reason they wish, if the Canadian annoys them.)
Two, they can admit you as a US citizen who does not have a US passport. It’s against the law, but the law has no penalty and they are bound by another law to let you in.
The general advice is that you should not obtain a US passport because doing so would invalidate your relinquishment, which in your case is early enough (pre-2004) that it would excuse you from any hypothetical exit tax were you to go through the whole silly compliance process. However, if you can’t afford to renounce you probably don’t have exit tax concerns, and at the end of the day hassle-free travel to visit a grandchild might be worth more to you than the date of your relinquishment. So don’t rule out a US passport.
Hi again, Ron
In addition to the tongue lashing I got from the U.S. Immigration bully, I was served up with a State Department document where he helpfully highlighted the section of the law (below) that I was alleged to be violating. Not sure what to make of this…
INA: ACT215 – TRAVEL DOCUMENTATION OF ALIENS AND CITZENS
Sec. 215[8 U.S.C. 1185]
b) ”Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter the United States unless he or she bears a valid United States passport.”
@BB
US law does require that US citizens enter the country with only a US passport. It’s been that way for a long time.
However, this law has no defined penalty, and a US citizen cannot be barred from entering the US. So it’s effectively unenforced, and the worst that happens is lectures.
I expect it’s the same for Canada. If recognized as a Canadian, you must be allowed in, regardless of which passport you’re carrying. That’s the Catch-22.
@Karen
Indeed, that is the law. You’ll note that no mention was made of punishment, nor of your being refused entry. It is merely “unlawful” to enter with your Canadian passport.
As I said, going forward you can either take your chances with having further arguments, or apply for a US passport. In theory they cannot keep you out if they believe you to be a US citizen.
Thanks for this Ron,
My only concern is the high cost to me (airline ticket) to test out this line BUT willing to give it a shot!
I am aware of the requirement and early on referred to it as a “catch-22” or “paradox” that they cannot bar those they believe to be a US citizens from entering. Still, Canada requires it (with the exception of Canadian-US citizenships).
Can a Canadian enter Canada without a passport?
No. Canadian citizens, including dual citizens, cannot apply for an eTA to enter Canada. … A valid Canadian passport is the only reliable and universally accepted travel document. It provides proof that you are a citizen and have the right to enter Canada without being subjected to immigration screening.
http://www.cic.gc.ca › helpcentre › answer
I know that there is currently no enforcement mechanism in the US, but what’s to stop the US from taking the same steps in enforcing its own laws?
b) ”Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter the United States unless he or she bears a valid United States passport.”
All fine and dandy, IF YOU ARE A US CITIZEN. You are not a US citizen so that law is totally irrelevant when you apply for admission with your Canadian passport. You are entitled to the same visa waiver entry as any other Canadian unless you have an arrest record or some other problem. Maybe you need to print out and carry a copy of US expatriation law to show them how it was you lost your US citizenship if they hassle you again.
I got into exactly the same argument some years ago. The guy asked me if I had gone to a consulate and renounced. When I answered no, he replied that I was still a US citizen. I told him he was wrong, renouncing at a consulate wasn’t the only way to lose US citizenship. I finally told him to either let me in or turn me back, but I wasn’t a US citizen and therefore couldn’t get a US passport. He was grumpy, but he eventually let me in. I wonder if he put a note in their computer because I haven’t had a problem since.
Do remember that a non-citizen has no absolute right to enter the US. It’s at the pleasure of the customs officer, though of course they work within certain guidelines and rules.
Right. You aren’t a citizen, well prove it – but do not think you are necessarily going to enter in doing so.
That’s another Catch-22.
Right, so if Karen absolutely wants to visit that grandchild with zero percent chance of failure, she should be prepared to either obtain a US passport or argue that she is a US citizen.
She can also claim to be Canadian-only by virtue of having relinquished, but then there’s the risk, however small, that if they believe her and are annoyed by her, she will not be allowed to enter.
@BB
“A valid Canadian passport is the only reliable and universally accepted travel document. It provides proof that you are a citizen and have the right to enter Canada without being subjected to immigration screening.”
So if you enter without a Canadian passport, you go to immigration screening, where they ask you questions like which team did Wayne Gretzky play for, or who was the previous prime minister, or what bird is on the one-dollar coin, and then they let you in with a polite warning to use a Canadian passport next time. (I’m sure it helps to have fair skin and speak without an accent. White privilege and all.)
Karen could pay for grandchild and a parent to visit her in Canada but how damn unfair that a border crossing should evoke so much anxiety and uncertainty as to make this less than ideal solution to come into possible consideration. I’ve accepted that I will never cross that border (on general principles mostly) but if there was someone in the USA that I absolutely wanted to see (there isn’t really since all of our immediate family has passed away) I’d bring them here rather than go there or meet them in an alternative country … somewhere sunny and warm during our Canadian winter.
Karen. Please don’t despair.
You should continue to travel south if you wish. We travelled for 50 years 2-3 times a year on a Canadian passport. On exactly 2 occasions, the guard said you could or should get a US passport- which we ignored.
Your argument goes as follows- “When I became Canadian many years ago, I lost my US citizenship. At that time, I had no choice and there was no need to inform the State Department. I‘ve done nothing since to try and get it back even though I suppose I could”
Personally, if push ever comes to shove, I’d rather be turned back as a Canadian than allowed in as a US citizen. For some reason most of the trouble seems to happen when traveling by air. Portland has the right idea.
I renounced almost one year ago (next week) and have entered a lot since then. I have a Nexus card and a work visa, so not sure if that simplifies things for me. But I have had my US birthplace mentioned three times in probably 50 entries, but never in a hostile or ‘power-trippy’ way.
Last one was two weeks ago, heading to Pennsylvania for work. The CBP agent at the bridge, in almost an apologetic manner, said that he noticed that I had a US birthplace on my passport. I told him that I had renounced a year ago, and he kind of danced around asking why. I explained that I had been in Canada almost ten years, and that my life was centered here with my Canadian wife, and that it made things simpler for me to just maintain one citizenship and avoid all the “paperwork” was how I described it. I took care to not mention the “tax” word.
He said, “so let me get this straight, what you’re saying is Canada makes it cheaper then to have just one citizenship?” I answered in the affirmative, even though I wanted to say “no, actually the US makes it extremely expensive and intrusive to maintain their citizenship”, but didn’t want to stir the pot.
Smile and wave, boys, smile and wave.
FYI For entering Canada, I just saw this page: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/dual-canadian-citizens-visit-canada.html
Specifically, it says: “Exception: If you are an American-Canadian dual citizen with a valid U.S. passport, you don’t need a Canadian passport to fly to Canada. However, you will still need to carry proper identification and meet the basic requirements to enter Canada.”
Perhaps the same applies entering the US?
BTW does anyone know the rules for the US if you are driving?
@aaa123
It’s always been the case that a dual citizen could enter Canada with a US passport as long as they carried a citizenship card or some other identification that documented their Canadian citizenship.
The US has no such equivalent. Per the letter of the law, a US citizen must always enter the US with a US passport. In practical terms this law has been widely ignored and is only rarely enforced. Also there is no difference between entry by land or by air.
I infer that you are a dual citizen born in the US and but with a Canadian passport, you are planning a trip to the US, and you are concerned about the US birthplace? If you declare yourself to be a US citizen, be prepared for a lecture on how you need to get a US passport. If you only declare yourself to be a Canadian citizen, odds are they won’t notice, and if they do, they’ll ask if you are a US citizen then tell you that you need a US passport. In neither case would you be denied entry.
The only reason to identify yourself as a US citizen is if you do frequent work trips and run into the “you need a visa for two days of meetings” bullshit at the border. If it’s personal travel just call yourself Canadian and they won’t care.
I have a hunch that exception might be due to the fact that the Canadian and US border computer systems share data. So if you are a dual US/Canadian who arrives at Canada Customs showing a US passport, they would already know that from the info shown on their screen.