Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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Julio: Please do not pass judgement on people in this group until you experience what they experience. What I can tell you about myself is that had I known what I know today 3 decades ago, there’s no way in the world I would have married a us citizen. There is indeed a loss of freedom involved.
@Julio
Let’s do a little thought experiment: imagine you were born to French parents living temporarily in the US who returned home when you were a small child; you grow up in France, and have no emotional or family connection to the US (you might not even speak English). One day, as a an adult, you learn that because of your birthplace you cannot open a bank account without having your personal financial information reported to the US government. You may not be able to open certain types of investment accounts. You may not be able to hold certain jobs if they require signing authority for an employer’s accounts (the same applies to volunteer positions). The only cure for this is to spend US$2350 of your own money on renunciation, and if you talk to the wrong accountant or lawyer, they might be scare into spending considerably more on US tax compliance, which is completely unnecessary.
We can argue about whether calling this “abuse” or “enslavement” is hyperbole. What we can’t argue about is that this hypothetical person has every right to tell the US to go fuck itself, particularly as they will be gouged some serious money to reclaim rights and privileges they should never have lost.
@julio
We here are people who have made their lives outside the USA. In fact some have never set foot on American soil but inherited US citizenship from a parent. Others who were born in the US to non American citizens and left as babies obtained American citizenship by the fact of being born there. They may hold no US passport and their allegiance is to the country where they grew up.
Others left the US for jobs or fell in love with a non US person abroad. They have made their lives abroad and pay tax to their country of residence.
When the US government threatens non US banks and financial institions with a 30% withold if they dont report all US persons then any US person becomes potentially toxic to them. I personally have had my local bank accounts closed, others have had their mortgages foreclosed. Local unrealised pension funds become taxable in the US. It is extremely serious if one cannot pay ones utility bills, buy a house or save for a pension. It makes everyday life impossible.
The US is the only country in the world except for Eritrea (an African dictatorship) to demand this of it’s diaspora. Every other country in the world taxes only it’s residents.
The US demands financial enslavement of it’s citizens. Try working abroad, you will soon find out .
@Julio
It’s abuse when you’ve been US tax compliant when the TCJA bankrupts your foreign corporation just because it’s owned by a US citizen. Look it up. It’s called Sec 965 “Transition Tax” and it was aimed to bring companies like Google back to the US, not Canadian companies solely operated in Canada.
Now kindly go fuck yourself.
On Dec.10, 2018, I renounced at the US Consulate in Halifax, Nova Scotia, 4 mos after making the interview request. The entire process took about an hour, of which 15 min was the interview and most of the rest was waiting.
The Consulate was in a suite of an office high-rise. Getting into the suite required passing though security where they (pleasantly and thoroughly) checked every pocket and the lining of my (winter) coat. (Remember not to take ANY electronic devices or gels (chapstick etc.).)
There were 3 wickets I was called to: at the first, a nice person took my documents (only and exactly the same ones requested when booking my appointment — though I had brought quite a few others as back-up); at the second, another nice person took my money (by Cdn credit card); and finally, at the third, I had my interview.
For this final step, I got to sit down — but was still in the room with other people getting passports renewed etc., so this felt oddly public. The questions the polite and pleasant vice-consul asked were simple (did anyone force this on you or offer money to do this, why do this, why now). I’ve been living in Canada for over 50 yrs, and a citizen here for about 30, so I understood that last one.
The vice-consul indicated he thought there would be no problem, though my application would have to be sent to Washington for final approval by government lawyers. In the meantime, he suggested taking my receipt of the renunciation fee with my Cdn passport for travel to the U.S.
The whole experience was almost anti-climactic, with all consular staff acting polite, relaxed, and pleasant.
@Consuelo
Congratulations on your renunciation, I am pleased to hear all went smoothly and staff were pleasant.
I must say it’s odd to be asked if anyone had offered you money to renounce! Do they think there is some kind of conspiracy afoot to encourage us all to renounce? Obviously another form American paranoia!
@ Consuelo
This time of year when I’m reading a new consulate report I hear a little bell ring and think of another angel getting its wings (“It’s a Wonderful Life”). Congratulations and it must be nice to have that behind you while you prepare to enjoy the Christmas holidays. It’s always nice to hear someone’s appointment went as smoothly as my husband’s did almost 5 years ago.
@heidi.
“I must say it’s odd to be asked if anyone had offered you money to renounce!”
I’d renounce if someone offered me US$2350, although it would be nice if they topped it up to 3k to cover the travel expenses as well. But spend my own money, no. So far, lying has worked fine for me and its free.
But there is a conspiracy to encourage us all to renounce, otherwise known as Congress.
@Consuelo
Congratulations, glad it all went well. Merry Christmas.
@ Consuelo,
Congratulations and thanks very much for your report, particularly all the detail. I’ll add it to the Directory. Glad to hear it went smoothly.
Consuelo, congratulations on navigating the process and achieving the outcome you chose.
My experience (Dec. 6, Montreal) was similar except the VIce Consul did not ask any of those questions. He said, “ You elected to make no written statement, do you wish to make a verbal one?” I said no, figuring they well knew why a person who had been a US citizen for 70 years would give it up.
I received same caveat re approval in DC and he said I would get the CLN in 1-3 months. Very polite and clearly a routine matter.
I am curious if there is a central place (website) where interview date and receipt of CLN is published. I find it surprising that I cannot find any info on what the wait times are in the most recent years. When I had my interview I was told that I would receive my CLN within 2 months. It has been 2 months and still nothing, and no current information anywhere.
When I renounced, after the estimated wait time had elapsed I emailed the consulate. CLN promptly turned up.
@ WaitingforCLN
We keep a tracking chart of data that people post regarding their timeline, initial contact/meeting/receipt of CLN, on this website in the appendix of the Consulate Report Directory, page 248-263. It spans several years and many locations, though, so it may or may not be useful in your particular situation.
At 2 months, your CLN is late, certainly later than the estimate they gave you, but not abnormally late. Have you contacted the embassy/consulate yet?
If you have contacted them and they’ve not replied, next step would be to contact the District office of American Citizens Services in Washington, which handles issuance of CLNs. They have been very helpful when an embassy or consulate has dropped the ball. See page OD-18 of the DoS telephone directory, about halfway down the right hand column. Dept of State divides the world into five Districts.The District abbreviations in the DoS phone directory are: NESCA: Near East and South Central Asia; EAP, East Asia and Pacific; WHA; Western Hemisphere; AF, Africa, EUR, Europe
I renounced in Montreal in December 2018 and was given a 1-3 month estimate for delivery of CLN, “pending renunciation approval by D.C.”
When the clerk asked me to fill in my address on the ExpressPost envelope, she said to write it twice, as both recipient and sender, “because we don’t want it coming back to us.” I wanted to say, “What? For $US 2, 350 you will not ensure this reaches me?” but held my tongue.
The consular staff when I renounced had the opposite attitude. I was anxious to pay postage costs, double-pay if necessary. But was told: “For $2350 I would hope we can pay the postage.”
That was just after the price increase. I got the impression they were all shocked and mortified by the punitive increase coming hard on the heels of the FATCA-induced spike in renunciations.
Appointment for my offspring was in the summer and we received the CLN on the normal time schedule. However, 2 federal registers have been released since then (supposedly covering info they received up to 28Dec2018) and their name doesn’t appear. Can anyone who reonounced in Vancouver, Canada indicate if/when their name turned up on the register?
https://www.federalregister.gov/quarterly-publication-of-individuals-who-have-chosen-to-expatriate
Thanks.
It can take a long time to show up on the list (I am told, by friends who renounced before me). Be patient (I am told, by friends who renounced before me). I renounced in mid-Dec 2018, and am still waiting to see my name … bubbly will be opened when I do.
@ Consuelo: I renounced in early Dec. 2018 and I’m not on the list either. But I have my CLN so I don’t care. I will •really• feel done with everything (and ready for that champagne) when I file my exit tax with all appropriate forms and documents, any day now.
Any comments from people with renunciation appointment experience:
* what were questions that will be asked?
* how do I answer them in a manner that my request will not be denied?
I was left scared to death at a “renunciation seminar” by someone who wanted $11k +++ to help me with this, turns out my case was pretty simple and simply hiring a US Tax accountant easily paved the way to getting my appointment
@MEdwards
No renunciation will be denied, unless they think that you have been coerced or not mentally able to make the decision.You have no need of any help for a renunciation appointment, it is completely independent of your US tax situation. Consulates are not permitted to ask about your US tax affairs. Renunciation is a human right and most consulates are respectful of this. They only ask if you are aware of the consequences of renunciation and if you have made your decision independently without any coercion. Tax accountants do-not come into the process in any way.
You can read on our section ‘Consulate report directory ‘ which describes Consulate experiences during renunciation.
@MEdwards,
Here’s a link to the Consulate Report Directory. You can also access it through a link in the original post. Ditto to all Heidi said. The actual face-time at the consulate is generally pretty brief. About 5 minutes with a clerk, then sit and wait (this really varies), then about 10 minutes with a consul or vice consul, which is mainly signing and pushing papers back and forth across the counter.
@MEdwards
Let me guess, was it a Moodys Gartner seminar?
PS MEdwards
I just wanted to add that you are not required to give a reason for renouncing and officially you should not be asked but occasionally a Consular official may do so. If so, it is best to keep your answer simple, such as you feel more of an allegiance to the country in which you live and you wish to simplify your life . Do not mention US tax reasons.
@ MEdwards
it really annoys me when I hear of people being subjected to scare-mongering at compliance seminars. My husband relinquished 5 years ago. He had only 3 minutes of actual “face-time” with consulate people, although the appointment took 1.5 hours due to security procedures and sit-and-wait time (on a somewhat uncomfortable chair he claimed afterwards). His was a relinquishment, not a renunciation, so there was likely no time needed to take an oath (he doesn’t recall doing that anyway) and definitely no time needed to make a payment back then (now they charge for both relinquishment and renunciation). It did cost us 2 nights in a motel, gas and meals so we didn’t exactly get off scot-free though. I’m sure all will go well for you too.
@MEdwards
You were probably also told that it was absolutely essential that you come into tax compliance and go through the entire exit procedure etc. This is also not true. Whether tax compliance and exit make sense depends on individual circumstances, but it’s by no means required for renunciation.