Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
If clicking on a link brought you to the wrong page on the comment thread, click here to go to the current page.
Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
If clicking on a link brought you to the wrong page on the comment thread, click here to go to the current page.
Heidi:
“ I believe EU states that private banks can chose to close accounts, but state banks must accept customers for basic accounts.”
The EU doesn’t have the power to tell banks when they can close an account and when they can’t close an account, and neither does any EU Member State. EU law requires Member States to ensure basic banking accounts are available. Useless.
@Heidi and @plaxy it seems that Spain signed a bilateral treaty with the U.S. and it legislates the need to comply with FATCA reporting requirements. A quick search on the internet revealed this website that seems to explain the bank’s insistence: https://sovos.com/blog/2017/05/12/spain-publishes-new-crs-fatca-faqs/
What surprises me is that the bank doesn’t seem interested in a justified W-8, just a W-9 or the highway. I’m pretty sure that they don’t know what a CLN is nor care much either. That’s just based on the conversations that I’ve had with them and their attitude. I even pointed out that by Spanish law you cannot be American and Spanish at the same time, that you have to renounce that nationality to nationalize as a Spaniard.
They just want it to be clear cut, and I am neither clear nor cut out for this crap.
@plaxy
I didn’t say that the EU has the power to tell banks to do anything! I said that private banks are allowed to refuse or close customer accounts, but they cannot Freeze them.
All EU residents have the right to have a basic account, I agree they are pretty useless.
Why does everything with you have to be confrontational.
Chicken Assembler:
“itvseems that Spain signed a bilateral treaty with the U.S.”
Correct – and brought in local legislation to make it Spanish law.
“and it legislates the need to comply with FATCA reporting requirements”
Modified FATCA reporting requirements – a significant difference.
“What surprises me is that the bank doesn’t seem interested in a justified W-8, just a W-9 or the highway.”
They’re allowed to accept a reasonable explanation for why there’s no CLN. They’re not required to. My UK bank wasn’t even interested in my (genuine) CLN.
“by Spanish law you cannot be American and Spanish at the same time, that you have to renounce that nationality to nationalize as a Spaniard.”
Worth raising this when you write to your M.P.
“I’m pretty sure that they don’t know what a CLN is nor care much either. ”
I have an account with the UK branch of a Spanish bank. They accepted my CLN and all was well.
@CA
Unfortunately it looks like when one aquires Spanish citizenship they still retain US citizenship.
https://www.dualcitizenship.com/free-consultation/spain.html
If you get no joy from the State dept, why not just renounce and to hell with the rest.
Legally banks must accept a cln!
“All EU residents have the right to have a basic account, ”
But not necessarily with any specific bank. Member States have a duty to ensure basic bank accounts are available, that’s all. In the UK, not all banks are required to offer basic accounts, but some do. I don’t know what Spanish law stipulates.
“Legally banks must accept a cln!”
Must they? I don’t know what the Spanish legislation says. The UK legislation allows the bank to apply the “cure” for US place of birth (obtaining a copy of a CLN) but does not require the bank to do so.
@plaxy
I would have thought acceptance of a cln was a human right , a legally defendable document.
Chicken Assembler:
I said:
“I have an account with the UK branch of a Spanish bank. They accepted my CLN and all was well.”
The bank is Santander, in case that’s useful. If your accounts are with a different bank, it might be worth approaching Santander to ask whether they will accept the proof that you are waiting for a relinquishment ruling, as a reasonable explanation for not having a CLN.
If Santander accepts you, you can switch your accounts and leave the other bank, complaining loudly and publicly as you go.
Chicken Assembler. Your second and probably quicker option is to renounce. Forget about filing any tax related BS . File nothing to the IRS. They are not iterested in you. Biggest downside is that State might charge you twice. – bunch of crooks.
‘might charge you twice.’
I wonder what would happen if 1) someone paid for the CLN by credit card (my receipt states that’s what I was paying for) and 2) the CLN did not materialise.
I believe one could claim the amount back from the credit company, as the goods/services ordered were not provided…
“I wonder what would happen if 1) someone paid for the CLN by credit card (my receipt states that’s what I was paying for) and 2) the CLN did not materialise.”
Does it? Mine says “renunciation.”
Sadly, I don’t think the credit card company would have to pay up unless you could show that the US had failed to comply with its stated t&c’s.
For what it is worth I’ve spoken with the sympathetic assistant at the consulate who was surprised that the case was still outstanding and will have the consular officer speak to the DOS to find out what is happening. Due to the post-dated relinquishment and the subsequent appeal my case stands out like a sore thumb and they remember me in the consulate. She’s asked me to send an e-mail explaining my predicament so that they can pressure those in Washington to act. I have my doubts whether that is the best idea, but I have nothing to lose at this point and a gun pointed at my head with the banks.
‘ Re Charged twice’
CA asked for a post dated relinquisment in July 2015, maybe this was before charges for relinquishment were introduced?
That sounds like good news, Chicken Assembler!
@plaxy Thanks for the tip. I’ve spoken to a banking friend who fears that this might be a general trend in Spain as they are all updating their Get to Know Your Client databases, and when that happens something smelly hits the fan.
Chicken Assembler – too true. Sound of backs being rapidly covered.
The Chicken Has Landed!
After more than 3 years dealing with the paperwork of a relinquishment – the application; the rejection; the request for an administrative review; frenzied phone calls to the consulate and a sympathetic staff – I received my backdated CLN yesterday in extremis.
The truth is that they were fantastic at the consulate and came through like champions when they realized my situation (my bank threatening to block my account in 10 days) was severe and it was no fault of my own. They called me and kept me appraised and I even got a heads up letter from Washington telling me that it was on its way. At the consulate they called me to tell me when it was ready and let me come right away to pick it up. They really cared.
What a wave of relief! I stayed away from the outrageously expensive lawyers offering their services in the US. I solicited the review it by myself with the help of the advice of people from this forum and a lot of patience. It wasn’t that hard to do. It was the waiting that was excruciating.
Thanks to all for your help!
Bravo.
Congratulations, Chicken Assembler!
Congratulations @Chicken Assembler. Sorry your ordeal was so long. I hadn’t realized that there were still cases left hanging for such a long period.
” I hadn’t realized that there were still cases left hanging for such a long period.”
Chicken Assembler’s case straddled the change of administration.
The Republicans have different fish to fry.
Congratulations, Chicken Assembler! Glad to hear it arrived.
Hi there. I’m a proud American who has never earned money abroad. That should be sufficient for anyone who so desires to ignore the following.
I feel a reflexive sadness seeing people give up American citizenship, that’s something that I hope will never go away. What I hope will go away is the use of terms by unserious people outside of their usual context in order to make things seem more serious. For example, the use of “abuse” after “verbal” so that people take more seriously something just because “abuse” is also used after “child”, “domestic” or “sexual” which are actually serious. In this thread it be the use of the word “freedom” to get away from the obligations that come with being a US citizen or calling the tax code an infringement on your human rights. What must be wrong with any group of people where not one of them says something along the lines “I also renounced my US citizenship, but you guys are being fucking ridiculous with the statements that are one small step away from claiming to be enslaved” is beyond me.
Kindly go fuck yourselves,
Julio Goodsaid
Julio,
Where you stand depends on where you sit.