Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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Congratulations, UK Rose, on your respectful renunciation experience and the fast receipt of your US Certificate of Loss of Nationality! The great discrepancy in wait times for receiving both appointments and CLN’s continues.
You’re a Brocker as well — thank you for your report which will help people coming after your experience as we all try to help each other through this absurdity.
Fast turn-around, Dr. Kish! It is now more official and proof of your renunciation almost in your hands, the bitter-sweetness of having to renounce your US citizenship.
My continued appreciation for all you do — and for introducing Brockers to a new destination as an option for speeding up US citizenship renunciation.
@UK Rose, @Stephen, congratulations to you both!
Dr Kish;
Your processing time was so exceptional that I sense the smell of rotting fish somewhere. This rapid turn around could be used in the USG favor in regards to the litigation you are involved in.
May I respectfully suggest that you and/or your lawyers immediately begin a FOIA request, paying the nominal fee, and obtaining all documents to include email correspendence (including State internal emails) pertaining to your case.
From my own experiences long long ago I would have stepped in and handled your situation with kid gloves treating you as a VIP so that no bad words would come from your mouth. On other matters with other squeaky wheels, I stand before all as guilty.
In the end there may be nothing but it would be wise to gain some clarity. I believe it is highly important to show that you are the exception and not the rule. The emails will be very important especially if they are redacted.
It could be interesting of lets say Calgary made a similar request so that the two files could be compared as Calgary was not a VIP unlike yourself.
George
@ George,
Stephen’s CLN turnaround time is definitely on the fast side, but doesn’t seem to be extraordinarily so for Europe. (The CLN’s are handled by 5 offices in Washington, each covering a geographic zone – there’s a wide spread within each Zone, but Europe averages out quite well compared to Western Hemisphere which averages the worst.) That doesn’t rule out that his was fast-tracked — as some have taken much longer — but it’s relatively common for the Europe office to turn out a CLN in a month or so, so I don’t think it’s a strong indicator.
Reports to Brock from renunciants and relinquishers in Europe – CLN received within:
2 weeks: 2
1 month: 11
2 months: 7
3 months: 5
4 months: 3
5 months: 7
6 months: 1
7 months: 2
8 months: 2
9 months: 1
10 months: 1
George,
I don’t believe that I was any exception in Iceland.
Thirty days following renouncing I continue to experience two types of stress: 1) the stress of losing my U.S. citizenship which I have always valued; and 2) survivor’s guilt: I could afford the cost of renouncing U.S. citizenship (and, probably, tax citizenship) but I “left behind” in that prison all those who also would like to get out — but can’t.
Pacifica, for your evolving records, here are the final timelines for my renunciation of U.S. citizenship (my attempt to renounce United States tax citizenship will occur in 2017):
— July 19, 2016 Requested renunciation date of August 24 first morning at U.S. Embassy in Reykjavik, Iceland
— July 21 Appointment date and time granted
— August 24 Renounced U.S. citizenship at Iceland Embassy in front of Embassy official
— August 25 Embassy contacts U.S. Department of State (DOS) and recommends DOS approve Certificate of Loss of Nationality (CLN)
— September 21 2016 DOS approves CLN (but I don’t have the paperwork yet)
— September 26 Iceland Embassy advises me that paperwork, including CLN, is being sent to me today; gives me tracking number
— October 14 I receive CLN (from Iceland with DOS stamp of approval) at Toronto Canada post office (registered mail). Suspect delay was caused by combination of Canada Customs and Canada Post. I thank Iceland Embassy by email for courtesy I received from all staff I encountered, and Embassy responds.
Other: Formally withdrew U.S. voter registration in King County, Washington State and arranged to have new Nexus card not linked to U.S. citizenship.
Also, it turned out that I was lucky that I did not select an October date at the U.S. Embassy in Bahamas — my original first choice.
Please, no congratulations.
@ Stephen Kish
“Please, no congratulations.”
May you eventually have peace of mind concerning your escape from US tax prison. Those Canadian citizens who feel they can’t renounce US citizenship at least have some protections from US extraterritoriality in Canada. That is if they don’t ever travel to the US. And if the slope doesn’t get more slippery.
Those of us who have escaped can still be useful in assisting those who haven’t or those who may be on murky ground. We can continue to resist and continue to support the lawsuit.
I too have always been at odds with the congratulations. We’re accustomed to congratulating people on marriages, not divorces where either party usually loses something.
Such a waste of human capital.
Congratulations, not to Dr. Kish as requested, but to the Icelandic Embassy for such gracious and timely service to a person who deserved nothing less than that because of his tireless committment to slaying the 3-headed monster (CBT/FBAR/FATCA).
Like Pat Canadian, I pass on best wishes to you, @ Stephen Kish, for peace of mind and add my thanks for the countless hours you have spent and will continue to spend on behalf of everyone who has been or continues to be knee deep in the IRS quagmire.
Thanks for documenting the process of your USC renunciation at Brock, Stephen. Your (and all other reports) will help others along their way. I’m sorry you were forced to make this decision, much harder for you than for me, but glad you now just have the remaining loose ends to tie up in finishing the extra-territorial taxation part of that former citizenship on you and your family.
@ calgary411
I’m so grateful that you and Stephen and others have hung in here the past 5 years. I often miss those Brockers who once contributed immensely to the dialogue but are now silent. I hope they at least drop by to read now and then. And yes, I know, it’s hard to keep up with all the posts and comments. I suppose what’s swelling my worry wart right now is that the Canadian lawsuit is still in pending status and I’m thinking our once pretty impressive sized base is dwindling. This could be because once someone has that precious CLN in hand it’s off to a life of IRS freedom and there’s a reluctance to look back. (Thank goodness our research treasure, Badger, hasn’t done that.) Anyway I’ll go listen to a soothing Mahamrityunjaya Mantra. It usually helps to lift my spirits.
@Stephen,
While I understand why you feel congratulations are inappropriate, you are lucky to have prompt closure on this part of your expatriation. We renounced 2 months before you did and have not yet received our CLNs (I have been told that the consulate has my CLN, but not those of my two family members who renounced with me). And I’m sure there are plenty of others who have been waiting longer than I have.
Ah, here’s a good opportunity to file my long-delayed Consulate Report.
I requested a renunciation appointment from the Toronto consulate middle of 2014, and was told that the first available appointments were in early January 2015. Of course, between those two times, the renunciation fee went from $400 US to $2350 US (over $3000 Canadian at the time). I tried to get the consulate to give me the lower rate given that I had booked the appointment when it was only (!) $400, but you can probably guess how far that got me.
Attended my appointment that chilly January day. I had been to the consulate before, so I knew not to bring along anything electronic, or even valuable, for the appointment. Proceeded past the line of shivering Visa applicants (the consulate makes you wait outside for significant lengths of time, which should be illegal on a windy January day in TO), making my last visit to the privileged window of “ACS” (American Citizen Services).
Past security, metal detector, to the oddly decrepit elevator that takes you to the second floor. Took a number, and waited in the waiting room with a small number of other folks. Desperately wanted to ask those around me if anyone else was there to renounce, but I find the consulate oppressive and was too cowardly. Maybe we need an Isaac Brock song to whistle or passphrase for identifying fellow Brockers?
At some point (I should have written this story sooner … the details begin to fade quickly at this age … anyhow, nothing different than others have experience at Toronto), I was called up to the window to hand over my documents: US Passport, DS-4079, “Loss of Nationality Questionnaire” … the latter which been already sent much earlier by e-mail.
Eventually I found myself standing again at the window, before the surprisingly young woman who is the Consul. Formally, but not coldly, we went through the exercise of confirming that I understood the seriousness of this decision, then raised my right hand and repeated the statement of freedom … I mean, of renunciation.
That done, I received back all of my documents except for the US Passport, and headed over to another thick, bullet-proof-glassed window to pay my atrocious sum, receiving a receipt in return. This receipt, I was told, would serve in lieu of the CLN for immigration purposes if I was to travel to the US before the CLN came. I headed down the creaking elevator and out into the glorious January sunshine of freedom.
My one “rebellious” celebratory act was to take the US quarter I’d brought with me for the occasion, and to throw it as far as I could. (Yes, my wild side is pretty limited.)
Much to my surprise, about 3 months later, my CLN arrived in the mail. It is a remarkably understated little document, given how much a focus there is on it. A single sheet of paper, a few courier-type words, and an official seal. I thought there would be a parting of the heavens and the chorus of angels when I opened the envelope, but the squalid piece of $3000 paper spoke volumes to how artificial and arbitrary this whole process is. Shame on you, US.
My story is the same as many of the accidental Americans on this site: born to two Canadian citizens but in the Benighted States, moved back to Canada at the age of 1.5, and never having lived or worked in the US. Travelled back and forth across the border several times a year for multiple decades, until a few years back I was threatened with a denial of entry by a zealous border guard, who told me about the need for a US passport. I still didn’t have a SSN when I got the US passport, but it was a few months later that a brother-in-law introduced me to the terrible letters: OVDP. Procrastination saved me from that plan (the application date went past), and I had discovered the expatforum.com site before the OVDI came along. For those who are newer here, the Isaac Brock Society grew out of that forum.
The Isaac Brock Society site has been a goldmine of guidance and encouragement, and I am immensely thankful for you all! Attending one of John Richardson’s seminars was also hugely helpful, and I am also deeply indebted to Phil Hodgen for his detailed knowledge of tax law and his unshakeable common sense. It’s also been quite interesting being interviewed by both Canadian and American newspapers (for whom I had to insist anonymity … weird feeling) as well as an international researcher gathering information on this whole crazy story.
And the best bit of advice that I received was from this site, although I forget from whom. It was “don’t let a crazy government make your life crazy.” I’ve done what I can, and the rest I surrender to God.
I’m not going anywhere, in case this sounds like “Goodbye.” I’m happy to stick around and help. And eventually I can report on the results and methodology of my tax resolution, in case that’s helpful to anyone.
Thanks, Brockers! I long for the day when I can use my real name, but that day isn’t here yet. Soon, soon…
@ OddlyNamed
Thank you for very descriptively recounting your consulate experience last year. I, for one, am happy to hear you will be sticking around. There’s miles to go before we sleep … got that Charter lawsuit to get through and who knows what else beyond that. Wish I was better at playing the waiting game. I do worry very well but I’m not proud of that. That good advice you got sort of sounds like maz57 or maybe mettleman but my memory isn’t honed well enough to say who for sure.
@Embee, I echo your comments above;
“….@ calgary411 I’m so grateful that you and Stephen and others have hung in here the past 5 years. I often miss those Brockers who once contributed immensely to the dialogue but are now silent. I hope they at least drop by to read now and then.” The roll call of names and icons that I miss seeing, and who have contributed here each in their own unique way, has grown, and though I am glad that many have found some resolution of the US dilemma, and wish them well, I often wonder how they are.
@OddlyNamed, glad you are safely through the hoops that expatriation can entail. Glad we’ll still have your company as we continue this journey.
I stay because I still deeply believe in our quest. This has also been a very very interesting experience and experiment in a group of otherwise heretofore strangers coalescing to share resources and support, pooling information and skills to pursue remedy and address injustice where no other recourse was to be found. Though early on these issues and experience were also fraught with deep personal dis/stress for me, IBS and Maple Sandbox have been a source of inspiration at what a disparate group of strangers far flung across the globe can achieve due to a common cause and common experience.
I agree badger. Though I’ve been done with the US for over 3 years now I still visit fairly regularly and if I can contribute advice or experiences to help others I will.
@Medea Fleecestealer
I also have been free for about 3 1/2 years now. I personally do not intend to ever return but I’m curious. What do they do at entry when they see your birthplace was USA on the passport? I have family that may want to go to the US for a quick visit.
Also once again thanks to the Brockers out there. I don’t think I could have managed to pull off my relinquishment without your trailblazing and resources.
Yitzi
May I offer my thanks as well. Please don’t forget that there are significant numbers of us who are completely paralyzed by CBT and FATCA/FBAR, namely, those of us who have lived outside the US for decades and who have saved for our retirement and are therefore subject to the exit tax. There is absolutely no way forward. So while I am happy and relieved for those who are able to find a way out of this mess, I am extremely grateful to those who also stick around IBS and continue to give support to those of us who are forced to hide and lie. Imagine, having to become a liar at age 69! Talk about old dogs and new tricks! It still confounds me, it still seems like cloud cuckoo land, yet here we are. So thanks for sticking around.
@Yitzi: I’ve crossed the border three times since I’ve renounced. I carry with me a notarized copy of my CLN … not sure that has any legal force at the border, but I wasn’t willing to carry the original, and my Canadian passport. In all three crossings — one at the Toronto airport, one at the New York land border, and one in the Washington airport — no one has ever asked to see the CLN or raised any questions whatsoever.
@No name: You have my sympathy. This is an immoral law, and I only went as far as I did (official renounce, followed by silent disclosure and doing the forms myself) because that seemed the outer limits of reason to me. If it was going to cost more than it did, say through voluntary disclosure initiatives or even just professional guidance … I wasn’t willing to sacrifice my family’s finances to satisfy the irrational demands of a foreign government (my wife and children are all Canadians). I’m sorry there isn’t an option for you and yours! “Land of the free”, indeed. 🙁
@Yitzi, very little in my case. This is what I posted over in the Renunciation thread after my recent trip to the States.
“I know we get queries about whether ex-Americans can enter the US again and about how easy it is or not so I thought I’d share my recent trip info.
Decided back in the spring that we would make our probably final trip to the US to see my relatives over there. Everyone is getting older which makes travel more difficult and unfortunately they’re not likely to be able to afford to visit me here in Switzerland. So first step was the ESTA. I filled in the forms and submitted them, expecting to have to wait the max 48 hours before I heard anything, but no it was only a few hours before they were approved.
Fast forward to end of August and our flight from Heathrow to Dallas. No problems at Heathrow and the flight was okay. At Dallas we went through the auto check for ESTA holders, but I got called back to see a “proper” person. Don’t think it was because of my “ex” status, more that I took a very bad photo with my eyes almost shut when the camera went off. So I had to give a full set of fingerprints, thumbs included, and have the photo done again. No problem with that and so we were cleared and out of the airport a short time later.
Checking in coming back no problems, apart from not understanding what we needed to do at the auto check-in terminals, but we got there in the end. At no point was I asked about my “ex” status, although I had copies of my CLN and my cancelled US passport with me just in case.
So all in all no problems, no hassle. We were out of Dallas airport 35 minutes after landing, and after 40 minutes when landing back in Heathrow.”
@No name, I and I am sure the others here at IBS remember the stories and suffering of many who struggled with this from the early days here, some of whom can have no resolution because of the factors you name, and we continue to strive to remember and to note the stories and circumstances of those newly discovering the quicksand that their US citizenship/taxablepersonhood has become.
Thank you for reading and commenting. That we journey together has been an essential aspect of this effort. I found early on here, years ago, that I was in very good company – no matter where on the wide spectrum of ‘compliance’ or jeopardy or quasi-‘resolution’ we were located.
@No Name
“Please don’t forget that there are significant numbers of us who are completely paralyzed by CBT and FATCA/FBAR, namely, those of us who have lived outside the US for decades and who have saved for our retirement and are therefore subject to the exit tax. There is absolutely no way forward.”
This is a horror. All the more reason for everyone to continue to support the lawsuit. One way out that some may find some peace with if they do not need to travel to the US for anything. Renouncing US citizenship without filing tax forms may at least clear the way to less hassle with banking/investing in Canada. And if the law remains the same, at least there is some protection from US extraterritorial enforcement. I don’t know how this would work in other countries.
Silent no more – never cuda / wuda done it without the very valuable assistance gained here from many wonderful people. Wooooooooooooooof!
@No name. ” Please don’t forget that there are significant numbers of us who are completely paralyzed by CBT and FATCA/FBAR, namely, those of us who have lived outside the US for decades and who have saved for our retirement and are therefore subject to the exit tax. There is absolutely no way forward.”
Your situation seems to be more or less similar to mine (i.e. lived abroad for decades and only recently discovered the CBT/FBAR/FATCA horror. Don’t despair; there is a way forward. Divest yourself of any US assets if you still have any and get rid of US citizenship if you haven’t already. Then forget about all the stupid tax returns and the exit tax procedure. There is no penalty for not filing tax returns if you would owe no tax and and it isn’t illegal to not file a Form 8854. Failure to do so will merely make you a covered expatriate. So what; they can’t touch you. Live your remaining years worry free. If you have to lie once in a while, then do what’s necessary to avoid being robbed. Its the US government that is the bad actor here, not you.