Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
If clicking on a link brought you to the wrong page on the comment thread, click here to go to the current page.
Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
If clicking on a link brought you to the wrong page on the comment thread, click here to go to the current page.
@Pilgrim7
Congratulations to you and your wife on your renunciations! Glad to hear you had a good experience. Yes, Halifax does have an excellent reputation. I don’t think we’ve heard *anything* negative about Halifax since we started sharing reports over four years ago, and quite a few other people have commened that the staff there were very pleasant to deal with. Wish DoS would send the Halifax crew around the globe to train other consulates!
This whole situation is a major hassle to deal with in the first place, so it’s good to hear that your renunciation itself went smoothly. Thanks for sharing!
@Chicken…dittos on Pacifica and Duke.
Your written appeal should be thorough and redundant. Make it a thick packet and very hefty..I am serious in that regard.
Pacifica has a valid point that you needed to know 1. you were a US Citizen at the time and 2. that the action was expatriating. So you will need to explain how you knew this. You may have been told this in the employment interview process, you may have known someone at the time with similar situations afterall Canada is filled with border babies. Whatever it is, explain it all……
Having said that, you are a textbook example why some elect NOT to get a retroactive CLN. Some will weigh the ability to use a reasonable explanation with a FI and maybe have a sworn affadavit from a lawyer versus getting a CLN.
After reading all of the above, it looks to me like Chicken Assembler made 3 mistakes although he couldn’t have known they were mistakes at the time he made them:
1. He set foot in a US consulate.
2. He paid them $2350.
3. He asked them to issue him a CLN.
Unless he has some desperate need for that piece of paper the best thing he can do at this point is cut his losses, dust off his hands, and walk away continuing to live his entirely Canadian life. He knows perfectly well he is not now a US citizen and hasn’t been since the late 1980’s. No US government bureaucrat can change that basic fact and no good will ever come from playing by their rules.
Thank you all for all your comments and suggestions. I’m starting to believe that the internet is a lot more valuable than I ever imagined as a way to connect with that small select group of people that you need to talk to that are scattered like needles in a worldwide haystack.
I am in the process of selecting a lawyer to help me with the Administrative Review. As they say, I already have the no; what do I have to lose in trying to get the yes? Time and paper. As George said, I’ll make it nice and thick.
@maz57
I find it hard to disagree with your jaded comment, but I will persevere as life is long, and you never know when you really need the backdated CLN in the future. One ray of light from your observation of my 3 mistakes is that I luckily applied for relinquishment back in the good old days when they were still free. Actually another little ray is that they were very understanding and civil with me in the US consulate, so I cannot complain.
Let us know how you do.We will still be here.
We’re finally done! (well, at least until we have to file our final returns next year)
A bit of background: we moved to Australia in 1995 when my husband was offered an academic position at an Australian university. At the time I had been a SAHM with our two children, then aged 5 and 7. Once the kids started school in Australia, I began my academic career (which would have been much more difficult in the US). We quickly felt at home in Australia and became Australian citizens as soon as possible, which was at the end of 1999. Once we became Australian citizens, we figured we were done with the US. However, as neither of us are lawyers, we had no idea how to formalise our emigration, and at the time it didn’t really seem to matter. We lived in Australia as Australian citizens: earning Australian salaries, paying Australian taxes, and saving for our Australian retirement. We had nothing to do with the US other than a handful of short visits to family over the 20+ years we’ve been in Australia.
Once we started hearing about FATCA in 2013, we started looking into our official status with regard to US citizenship. It took us some time (and a couple of false starts) to find the right professional advisors. In July 2014 we started the process of applying to have our relinquishment in 1999 recognised by the US. It took them until February 2016 to deny that application. Upon denial of our relinquishment, we immediately and at high compliance costs came into compliance and turned to finally renouncing our US citizenship.
Renunciation:
Sydney, Australia. First contact in April 2016 asking about wait times. Response was that appointments were available in May. They wanted: full name at birth, current name (if different), date of birth, place of birth, current address and phone, last address in the US, most recent US passport number, dates resided in US, details of other nationalities, scanned copies of all passports and naturalization certificates, and optional statement of reasons for renouncing (no form DS4079). We still had a few details to take care of before we could renounce, so we weren’t able to send in the requested information until 22 May. Our daughter decided to join us, so we requested appointments for the three of us at once. Response received 2 June offering 4 proposed appointment times (all in June). We took the first available appointment on 16 June. Reception for the Sydney consulate is on the 10th floor of the MLC Centre on Martin Place. You go through security there, check all your electronic devices (including fitbits!) and bags, before going up to the consulate on the 59th floor. They were polite and professional. When we got to the oath of renunciation, they asked whether we wanted to read it separately or together. So, the three of us read our oath in unison, which was a nice touch. Our appointment was at 11am and we were out of the door by 11:30 (and US$7050 poorer).
@Karen, on what possible grounds did they deny your relinquishment? If you’ve said before forgive me for not remembering, but it seems a clear cut case if you hadn’t done anything else “American” since you gained Aussie citizenship.
@ pacifica777
Could the new email address (in Canada) to begin to make arrangements for an appointment be included in this post and anywhere else it might help?
https://ca.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/loss-of-nationality/
@Medea
We believe the DoS decision was wrong, however I’m not willing to air all the facts on a public forum. We have had professional legal advice throughout the process, and decided that it would be quicker, cheaper, and easier to just go ahead and renounce rather than fight the relinquishment decision.
@Karen I can understand that and yes it was certainly quicker and cheaper than trying to fight it.
@Em,
Sure. There’s already a link at the end of the main post to a chart Eric made which contains links to renunciation/relinquishment information at the various conslulates’ websites. So, I added some bolding and gave it a heading and now hopefully it will catch more eyes. Thanks.
@Karen,
I’m sorry your relinquishment didn’t work out. I’m glad to hear, though, that you and your family are finally free and that the renunciation went smoothly. Congratulations! Thanks for sharing your story – our first from Sydney — and I’ll add it to the next edition of the directory.
@ pacifica777
Thanks … that works nicely. Eric’s info is a great help to everyone — in and out of Canada.
I get a 404 Error with the “BCA site” link Eric provided in his chart.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/404.html
However, all’s well with this link and it’s the key one.
https://ca.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/book-an-appointment/
@EmBee: Thanks for the heads-up. The Canada link being broken is my fault; fixed now. But some of the other broken Bureau of Consular Affairs (BCA) links are the US State Department’s fault:
Nassau’s “A-Z Services Directory” (basically the only place where they mention renunciation) linked to mailto:http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html. Even if you remove the erroneous “mailto”, i.e. http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html, that webpage doesn’t exist.
Rome’s page about citizenship for kids linked to http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_782.html which doesn’t exist either.
@Karen
Lucky you have the “means” to apply again.
This fee for renouncing is or should be, illegal!
@Jane – luckily the relinquishment application was when those were still free (it took them that long to rule on it!!), so we only had to pay one lot of outrageous fees. Even so, the process has not been cheap. We’re fortunate that we could afford it.
I don’t know exactly how to officially record our experiences at the Halifax Consulate. I posted a comment earlier about how well we were treated. The staff, and in particular, the Vice-Consul, seemed to appreciate that it was a tense time for two seventy-plus year old individuals. The process was handled almost sympathetically, and with respect. I don’t think one can ask for better (other than a more simplified and less expensive process). However, my reason for commenting once more is this: on June 17th, one month to the day after we renounced at Halifax, our CLN’s arrived (!). If people are still looking for appointments and can make the trip, Halifax more than lives up to its reputation.
Congratulations Pilgrim7. Glad to hear that there’s a consulate that’s efficient and respectful.
Congratulations, Pilgrim7 and Mrs. Pilgrim7! That’s great news that your CLNs came in one month! Halifax has got nothing but good reports so far — it sounds like a model of how they all should be doing this. I put your May comment in the June edition of Consulate Report Directory and I can update it with your latest in the next edition. Thanks for posting!
EmBee says: all’s well with this link and it’s the key one.
https://ca.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/book-an-appointment/
The link works but the booking is only for visas, passport services, etc. and not for renunciation appointments. The web page says
Note: Individuals desiring to renounce or relinquish their U.S. Citizenship should not make an appointment through this system. For information on how to schedule an appointment for that service, please visit the Loss of Nationality section.
@fn0
I’m not sure when EmBee went through the expatriation process, but it was completely changed earlier this year.
You cannot use the online appointment booking system to get a renunciation appointment with a Canadian consulate; you can only request an appointment by emailing CanadaCLNAppointments@state.gov (which you’ve done).
You mentioned the possibility of going to Mexico for an appointment. Just like Canada, they only accept Loss of Nationality appointment requests via email; from your original posting, it sounded like the Mexico website didn’t list an email but they do have one — it’s MexicoCityPassport@state.gov
In other words, ignore my advice about trying to use the Tijuana online booking system because the Mexico consulate does indeed provide alternative instructions:
https://mx.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/renunciation/
@ West Coaster
I never personally went through expatriation … it was my husband (2013-2014). The CLN appointment link you gave fn0 is indeed the one I recommended in an earlier comment. Can’t believe the extra steps they are adding to the whole process. In 2013 my husband was able to directly email the Calgary consulate to request an appointment. Wonder what else they can dream up to make it harder?
@ fn0
If you ask pacifica777 or calgary411 they might be able to hook you up with krackerjack121 (Rocky Martin) who renounced in Mexico. Just indicate in a post that you would like them to give Rocky your e-mail address and then it would be his choice to respond or not. I don’t think he gave a report for the Brock directory.
@EmBee
“Can’t believe the extra steps they are adding to the whole process. In 2013 my husband was able to directly email the Calgary consulate to request an appointment. Wonder what else they can dream up to make it harder?”
Believe it or not, I think the new process is actually much simpler. I had to email every single consulate in Canada (well, the seven that do renunciations since a handful don’t) and many of them never even bothered replying. It was so frustrating. I’d rather have just sent one request and specified that I’d take the earliest appointment, regardless of location. (I ended up using Airmiles to pay for a flight across the country to avoid waiting upwards of six months for an appointment on the west coast.)
What drives me crazy about the process is the high fee and all the paperwork I will have to submit next year to sever ties cleanly with the IRS. All Ted Cruz had to do is mail in a short application and $100 to give up his Canadian citizenship, but we have to jump through expensive and complicated hoops!
Rocky (Krackerjack’s) report is on page 204 of the Directory. You can just click on “Mexico, Tijuana” in the Table of Contents — it’s a hyperlink. And, yes, if you’d like to get in touch with him (or anyone), as EmBee mentioned, just “Just indicate in a post that you would like them to give Rocky your e-mail address and then it would be his choice to respond or not.” Our software doesn’t have direct private messaging, so that’s how we do it.
@ pacifica777
Oh thanks … stupid me … did not scroll down to the second page. Rocky’s renunciation was quite an interesting one. Do you know when he got his CLN? That part is still blank in the Time Charts. The directory is really a treasure trove for anyone wanting a preview of the expatriation process.