Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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Just spoke to my contact at the Consulate in Frankfurt to check on the status of my CLN (
Renounced October 7th 2015).
She told me she had received a huge pile of approvals… and mine is in it!!!
Approved February 24th! Should be receiving it next week.
What a relief!!! (I’ll be more relieved when I’m holding it in my hands)
@Schlampazius – congratulations on the good news! 🙂
Seems extraordinary that it was approved six weeks ago but not immediately forwarded to you by the Consulate. They’re charging plenty, per renunciation, so they should surely take on extra staff if necessary to deal with their workload efficiently. 🙁
Finally received my CLN today.
Initial contact: September 16th 2015
Renunciation: October 7th 2015
Approval date Dept. of State: February 24th 2016 (!!!)
CLN received: May 2nd 2016
Thanks to all for the invaluable information and the moral support!
@Schlampazius
The renunciation date is what counts: Oct 7th 2015
Hi Polly, it just amazed me that the consulate took so long to get the approved CLN to me.
It would be interesting to know the time span was for others.
@Schlampazius, congratulations on getting your CLN! Well done! At las the long wait is over for you.
Received my CLN today (renounced at London embassy).
Application sent: 23rd Aug 2015
Renunciation: 24th Sept 2015 (was told to expect the CLN in 4-6 months)
Approved by Dept. of State: 2nd May 2016
CLN received: 5th May 2016
Freedom from the IRS…finally.
@ Charmaine
Congratulations! Nothing makes this Brocker’s day brighter than reading that someone has received his/her CLN. I still can see the happy face of my husband the day I brought his Xpresspost package home from the post office. I knew what was inside and could hardly wait for him to rip it open. 🙂
Unreal. They charge 2350 and take 9 months to rubber stamp a piece of paper. And we are afraid of them ?!!!!!!!
@Duke
Just like the Fiberals, it has to do with where they put their priorities.
Congratulations @Charmaine and @Schlampazius! I remember how relieved I felt when I received mine.
@EmBee and @monalisa, thank you! Mental freedom is a wonderful thing.
@Duke of Devon, I know, it seems ludicrous to have to wait so long for a rubber stamp especially considering the disproportionate fee in comparison to other services. It’s pretty obvious that the US considers the whole renunciation process to be low priority.
@Charmaine, congratulations. It is a relief isn’t it finally having it in your hands.
@Duke
“We”?
Just as monalisa said; “Congratulations @Charmaine and @Schlampazius! I remember how relieved I felt when I received mine.’ So very true – and so glad when anyone manages to obtain theirs.
Thanks @Medea and @badger.
The only way you can get back documents from the London embassy is via a courier called DX which has been voted the worst delivery service in the UK! So it was an extremely anxious wait until I actually received the CLN yesterday.
@ All,
Would you share your thoughts with Posta, who will be having his renunciation appointment very soon? These are his questions. Thanks very much!
“I already have attended my first interview. It was an odd meeting and the embassy staff refused to provide me with their name or title. They tried hard to put words in my mouth and convience me not to renounce even stating that “you will waste your money”. They even very clearly told me lies about the process and decisions such as “if you don’t have another passport, we will deny you”. Further, despite my prior and subsequent email requests that they confirm and provide me with the forms they want me to prepare and bring on my 2nd meeting….they have not replied. Regardless, I know I should prepare DS-4080 and 4081.
My question is if they ask me to prepare 4079, should I:
(1) (a) refuse as it applies to relinquishment and not renounciation;
(b) fill out the form but cross out all words for “relinquishmemt” and replace with “renounciation”; or
(c) fill out only the part that specifically asks if you have renounced and put “not applicable” for each other part stating that they do not apply to renouncing?
(2) Second, if I do fill out any part, should I sign it (part 1 only) or simply leave it unsigned? “
There are those who are more knowledgeable than I about the renunciation process, but I’m really curious why consular staff said he’d be wasting money by renouncing?
That freaks me out.
@ pacifica777
Is this person planning to renouce without an alternate citizenship? I know it’s possible to be stateless but do we have any Brockers who actually have done that?
@ Posta,
They sound sleazy – not identifying themselves – and also sound obstructionist and, as you pointed out, appear to be lying about some things (or, at best uninformed, which is also a bad thing and pretty hard to believe at this point in time, as so many renunciations have been taking place.)
Also it’s bizarre they didn’t tell you what forms they want. I mean if they don’t want you to fill out the forms, they should tell you.
We have had reports of some consulates where they don’t use 4079 and the consulate prepares the 4080 and 4081.
Perhaps they won’t want a 4079. At any rate, I’m thinking you could fill one out and take it with you in case they want it, and only pull it out if they ask for it – or alternatively look it over and decide what you would write if you are asked to fill one on the spot.
(1) (a) should I refuse as it applies to relinquishment and not reunciation;
If they ask for a 4079, I’d fill it out rather than make waves. But I’d keep my answers very short. Definitely just tick “yes” or “no” without explanation wherever possible, and if any explanation is required, keep it really short.
If you have questions about specific questions, just ask here and people will let you know how they handled it.
(b) Should I fill out the form but cross out all words for “relinquishmemt” and replace with “renunciation”?
Once you renounce, your renunciation is your relinquishing act, so that word wouldn’t matter.
As I understand it, the 4079 is asking about your life up prior to your meeting at the consulate, so you wouldn’t have renounced or relinquished yet.
(c) Should I fill out only the part that specifically asks if you have renounced and put “not applicable” for each other part stating that they do not apply to renouncing?
Usually I’d put “no” for that because you would not have renounced at the time you filled out the form.
If you’re worried about them trying to trick you, perhaps for Q. 16 “Have you renounced your US nationality at a US Consulate or Embassy? If yes, provide a date and place,”
you could put “No” and write “I will be renouncing on May xx, 2016, at Abc City, Xyzland.”
But because they haven’t asked for a 4079, I wouldn’t volunteer it. I’d bring it in my folder of papers and only pull it out if asked for it. (Alternatively, you could look over the 4079 form and decide in advance what you’d write if asked to fill one out on the spot — ’cause I’d keep answers really short anyway.)
(2) You should leave the forms unsigned. They’ll tell you to sign them in front of them and witness your signature.
Really sorry you’ve run into an attitude problem. Ask any questions you want. If you don’t want to post on-line, you can e-mail them to me and I’ll post them. Best wishes!
@ Em,
I can think of two people. Mike Gogulski and Glen Lee Roberts have posted here and they renounced without possessing another citizenship.
@ pacifica777
Thanks … I can’t remember them. Hope all’s well wherever they are. Wonder how being stateless affects travelling to other countries … or do you just stay where you are forever? I see Mike Gogulski was mentioned here (in the comments):
https://thedualist.net/2016/02/14/assessing-my-options-for-addressing-my-newly-discovered-delinquent-us-tax-situation/
@Pacifica777 for Posta
I hope you’ll allow Pacifica77 to know which embassy this is taking place at so that others can be warned of their unhelpful attitude.
Fill in DS-4080, DS-4081 and yes DS-4079 in case it’s needed. For DS-4079 fill it in as best you can, don’t bother to cross anything out because that form DOES NOT MATTER! It has absolutely nothing to do with a renunciation, it’s totally irrelevant. For a renunciation all that is required is for you to stand in front of the Consul/Vice Consul and swear the Oath of Renunciation. That’s it, you’re done. Nothing you say on DS-4079 has or can have any effect on that action. You have just committed an irrevocable expatriating act and nothing can change that. I repeat NOTHING. That is made clear in this link:
Disposition of Cases When Administrative Premise Is Inapplicable
The premise that a person intends to retain U.S. nationality is not applicable when the individual:
1.formally renounces U.S. nationality before a consular officer;
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality.html
The only possible problem I see is that the embassy staff may refuse you the right to swear the Oath of Renunciation in front of the Consul/Vice Consul. Although it is not against US law to make yourself stateless I believe some embassies in the past have refused a renunciation because of this. However, the Statement of Understanding makes it clear that you do understand the consequences of becoming stateless so if they try that tack insist on your right to renounce. It is also clear in this State Department link that stateless is not against US law.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html
In fact the US embassy in Bern has a whole collection of info packaged up which includes both the above links as well as other useful info.
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/switzerland/890/public/CLN%20Package%20-%20V2_001.pdf
Checked the new quarterly publication in the Ferderal Register and was disappointed that couldn’t find my name.
Another waste of taxpayers’ money.
@Schlampazius, as a young teen studying history in an American high school I learned that John Hancock signed his name on the Decleration of Independece in large bold script so the foreign King could read his name very clearly!
Indeed the name and shame list has become the cum laude honour roll in the 21st century. It contains the names of men/women who INVOLUNTARILY renounced/relinquished their birth right a fact clearly known to the state department.
The shame is on the country, and that shame grows greater with each added name!