Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart            Part 2

1,560 thoughts on “Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart            Part 2”

1. My question, Whitekat, is whether you came out of lurkdom to critique my grammar or in appreciation of my message?

   I like it the way I wrote it, because the US (singular) is made up of a lot of dicks (plural).

2. LOL!

3. Bubbles, be sure and watch out for those walls tonight. 🙂

4. Molly. It’s beyond the pale. Of course they are wrong. CBC is a crown corp. just as Atomic Energy Canada is. Previously they approved employment with AEC as grounds for relinquishment.
   Did they keep your money? They shouldn’t have.
   What now? Renounce and file; renounce and don’t file; appeal – to whom?; do nothing- say ‘ the hell with it’?
   That’s what BCDoc did. She was turned down so she turned around and refused to have anything further to do with them. Good luck!

5. A short summary of my experience:
   – applied to about 5 posts for renunciation appointment
   – in aug 2015 Ottawa gave me an appointment for march 2016, which i later canceled
   – in aug 2015 i began inquiries to get appointment in Montreal, was told they would try to schedule in oct-dec 2015. I provided all the documents requested. Sent an email in sept as a reminder then was offered a date in oct 2015, which i took.
   – i had corresponded with Halifax, a smaller post, but they might have been the next best option for me.
   – it can be hard to get past the email auto-reply most posts have to get someone to respond, some use the email ‘subject’ to highlight the need for this
   – renounced in Montreal, october
   – CLN received january, 3 months later
   – old US passport was canceled and returned along with copies of several documents completed for the process
   – suggestions:
   – be sure to have the required return XPress post envelope
   – ensure you can pay fee, i had called my credit card company in advance and they assured me there would be no issue, but there was,
   i had to go downstairs to a pay phone and get the situation resolved
   – my appointment was for 2pm, you must remain outside the building and then a bunch of people are allowed to enter exactly at 2pm.
   – they seem to be only open for a fairly short time, so any delay in getting envelope or payment may mean you do not have time to complete the process
   – make sure you read all instructions and provide everything required
   – i had applied to several Canadian posts. My impression is that they seem to schedule what time of year to process these,
   so ‘wait time’ to get an appointment maybe depends when you apply and when they plan to do the next batch.

6. @ JustGetItDone
   Congratulations, you got it done and your CLN arrived in a relatively short period of time which gives you ample time to do your final filing this year. Did you see any fellow renouncers at your appointment? I hope you didn’t have too far to travel.

7. @ JustGetItDone,
   Congratulations on your CLN! Good to hear it came in three months too — definitely fast in our part of the world. What a hassle they make it to get an appointment. Thanks very much for sharing your information and tips!

8. there were 4 renouncing that day in oct, montreal

9. When I read these words “there were 4 renouncing that day in oct, montreal” there are tears in my eyes.

   What happened to the once City on the Hill?

10. I hope this information isn’t too out of date.

    January/February 2015:
    -Called the embassy in Copenhagen after making a appointment online for early March. I was told it was better to renounce at the “local” embassy in Sweden, even though it is much further away, though I could have kept the appointment in Copenhagen should I have chosen to do it there.
    -Called the embassy in Stockholm (waited on hold for 45 minutes) and was told they would need to email me documents for me to review before they could make an appointment. The documents were only information that is readily available online. I read them and responded promptly.
    -After waiting a week without being contacted, I called (waited on hold for 45 minutes) and was able to make an appointment in Stockholm for late March (about a 6-8 week wait).
    March 2015:
    -I left my bag at the station in Stockholm and took a bus to the embassy with a folder for documents. The website said no type of bags were permitted, but it did not seem as if this rule was enforced. I paid the cashier who exclaimed “that’s a lot of US cash!” Otherwise, payment in cash was not a problem and I was given a receipt. I was told to wait at the US citizens table next to the service windows. All of the other chairs were in long rows facing a large TV that was showing BBC World. I could easily hear everyone’s conversations with the embassy staff and the windows, as some conversations were rather amusing, the wait was not too tedious.
    -I was finally called up to a window. I had to sign three sets of papers and take oath and turn over my passport. I was not allowed to retain any copies of the papers I signed. I was told it would be a 2-3 month wait.
    July 2015:
    -I wrote a letter asking why I had not heard anything and followed up a week later with a phone call. I was told (after waiting on hold for 45 minutes) that they did “not know what I was told at the embassy, but a CLN takes at least six months.”
    October 2015:
    -Still no CLN. I started receiving weekly mail from FVAP (Federal Voter Assistance Program) for about a month. The only mail I have ever received from the federal government that didn’t concern taxes, SS or the draft. They wanted me to take an online survey: am I a satisfied voter? They did not include a return address so I could inform them that I no longer considered myself a citizen.
    November 2015:
    -Received CLN with my canceled passport and instructions on how to take action to reverse their decision.

11. @ Toby,
    Congratulations on your CLN and thanks very much for the info! I’ll add it to the directory. Sounds like a frustrating experience all along and quite a wait for the CLN. I recall that Europe was relatively quick (a month to a few months) with the CLNs when we started tracking a couple of years ago, but man has it really slowed down. Glad you have it all wrapped up now!

12. @Toby, congratulations on finally getting your CLN. Interesting they sent your info on how to reverse their decision. I got no such documentation when I renounced back in 2013. Just a letter with the CLN and my cancelled US passport. Maybe they think people will have a change of heart/mind down the line. Fat chance with all the trouble and expense you have to go through to get rid of it properly.

13. @ Medea,
    That’s been part of the CLN form since at least the 2007 iteration. It’s supposed to be sent out as part of the CLN, a separate page entitled “Administrative Review of a Finding of Loss of Nationality.” It’s basically a paragraph telling you can apply for review of their decision, followed by the address to contact if you want to. I remember it because it seemed comical — I was like, dispute this, they gotta be kidding!   If you didn’t get it, probably a goof on their part preparing the package – not that you’d have any use for it, either, except perhaps a chuckle.

14. @Pacifica777, maybe the Swiss embassy just gave up bothering as they were dealing with so many renunications. It’s not like they didn’t know the reason why people were renouncing after all. When you can’t get a bank account it’s pretty difficult to live a normal life, epsecially as the Swiss system of paying bills is done via your bank through monthly invoices sent to you which you then send on to your bank for payment. Only other way to do it is to stump up the cash at a bank/post office counter along with the payment slips. Direct debit is only now becoming more popular here – and of course still requires a bank account! Salary paid into bank/post office account too so if you don’t have one you’re pretty much stuffed.

15. There’s a new standardised procedure for renunciation/relinquishment for all locations in Canada. Be sure to read Patricia Moon’s new post, “New instructions to book Canada appointments to relinquish or renounce US citizenship.” Thanks for the news and details, Tricia!

16. Silly Wabbit has sent in their report of renouncing in Paris — our first report from Paris. Thanks very much, Silly Wabbit, and congratulations on your CLN!

    “Hello everyone!

    First, I want to thank the Society for your priceless information that helped me through this emotionally difficult process.

    Below is my consulate report from Paris. There were no reports from Paris in your last consulate directory, so I hope this helps someone. I wish I’d been alerted as to what to expect, as I was a bit surprised and a little creeped-out at times.

    I renounced in Paris in September, 2015. I’d called in June and was offered an appointment for just 3 weeks later! But I decided to take the next one in September after my vacation.

    The renunciation process was smooth and the embassy staff was very friendly and helpful. However, the experience was a bit on the creepy side.

    First off, there was really nothing to distinguish the American Embassy from any other building: (except for the sandbag-reinforced checkpoint in front, ha ha!) no Marines, no American flags anywhere. There was only a small bronze plaque with “U.S. Embassy” on it inside the embassy grounds, but it wasn’t visible from outside the compound.

    The embassy’s perimeter was heavily guarded by French national police. The sidewalk had barriers up and there were national police just down the street armed with machine guns. The street behind the embassy was completely blocked off to all traffic.

    I had to go through two checkpoints before being allowed to enter the embassy compound. The first was in a large plastic tent reinforced with sandbags just outside the gate(Beirut, anyone?). I was checked in by private security guards in plain black uniforms. There were no French police directly in front of or inside the embassy.

    The second checkpoint resembled a bunker. I went through a regular metal detector and a cursory security check. I was met by an embassy staff member just outside who directed me to “window 19”. She knew I was there for a renunciation from the check-in and assured me there was no waiting, just go right on through.

    Inside, the embassy looked like a bank, with teller windows along the walls of a large rectangular room. However, there were no American flags anywhere, nor any portraits or photographs of American presidents. Also, no one spoke English to me except the vice-consul.

    While windows 18 and 20 were regular bank teller windows—complete with bulletproof glass—“window 19” was a door which opened into a tiny room just big enough for a few chairs and another bulletproof teller window.

    The room behind the window was dark, so I sat down in the most comfortable chair and waited. It was several minutes before the light came on and a clerk appeared. She introduced herself and explained the process, in French. It never occurred to me to speak English, so the clerk and I chatted amiably in French during the whole process.

    But the process itself was a little weird. For instance, the clerk and the vice-consul would alternately appear behind the bulletproof glass, hand me some papers or verify information, then go away. After each appearance the window would go dark and I’d wait for about ten minutes or so. The vice-consul was a friendly young woman, but the “lights on, lights out” sequence felt a bit strange, a little “Manchurian Candidate”.

    While I was waiting, I noticed a large framed poster on the wall, extolling the virtues of “America” complete with colorful tourist photographs. I don’t remember much about the text, except it was a kind of a gushy “from sea to shining sea” poem. I guess it was there to tug at a renunciant’s heart strings. It didn’t work.

    After the clerk handed me more forms to verify and sign, the vice-consul showed up again for the renunciation “ceremony”. I thought it would be held in a regular office, with an American flag present. But no, the vice-consul remained behind bulletproof glass for the rest of the procedure. The consequences of renunciation were clearly explained to me more than once.

    The vice-consul was friendly, but she _did_ask me why I wanted to renounce and why now. Since I’d submitted a written statement, I basically repeated what I’d written. (I wanted to make it crystal clear why I was renouncing, so I put it in writing, just in case). I knew that I didn’t have to justify my renunciation to her, but I decided to be as cooperative as possible. I didn’t want to jeopardize my CLN in the least.

    When I’d signed all the preliminary forms, she told me I could pay at “window 20” when I decided to go through with renunciation, and then come back to the room for the oath. She made it clear I could back out now before paying and reschedule if I had second thoughts. She also seemed nervous about asking for money, but made it clear I had until 3 pm (about a half-hour) to pay the fee. I had the feeling that once I paid, the renunciation would be a done deal. I also had the impression that this was her first renunciation, since she seemed surprised at some of my answers during the interview and was a bit nervous. Not that I said anything extraordinary, I just explained that my life is in France and had no plans to return to the US.

    After paying by credit card and getting a receipt, I raised my right hand and read the renunciation oath back in the phone-booth sized room.

    I signed the original document and a duplicate. I requested proof of my renunciation, so the vice-consul cheerfully gave me a letter on official stationery, stating that I’d renounced and was waiting for my CLN. But _she kept my passport_and explained that travelling to the US while waiting for the CLN would be next to impossible, even in case of family emergency. I wasn’t sure what the official policy was on this (since other Brockers were able to keep their passports), so I kept silent, praying to the CLN gods. Plus, I was glad to be rid of the Blue Book and didn’t care if I set foot on US soil ever again.

    Finally, she said that I’d be hearing from the embassy by e-mail when the CLN came through, but that it might take up to 8 months. I thanked her and left.

    The whole process was straightforward and took about an hour and half. The business in the renunciation room was a bit weird, though. I left the embassy a bit drained, but otherwise light as a feather. Then I went straight to the nearest café and had a beer to celebrate before making the 4-hour train and bus ride home.

    _Addendum_: The embassy contacted me by phone when they sent out the CLN. Got it by /Chronopost/the next day (pre-paid by me in September). The packet contained the CLN, along with high-quality photocopies of all the documents I’d provided, even though they’d returned the originals to me when I renounced.

    Renounced_: September, 2015

    CLN received_: February, 2016

    –Silly Wabbit”

17. @Silly Wabbit, congratulations on getting your CLN. Not too long to wait for it at all. Thanks for the report, it’s really useful to have them for places we don’t yet have in the directory.

18. @SillyWabbit, congratulations! Interesting that you renounced in Sept 2015 and received your CLN in Feb 2016. I renounced in Amsterdam in Oct 2015 so perhaps my CLN will turn up next month. (Not bothered about it except I want to visit my sister in the US.)

19. @Medea Fleecestealer
    Thanks! What a relief. The first month of waiting was the worst, until I got my mind on something else. I hope the report helps. (Love your screen name, LOL! Greek classics reference? )

    @iota
    Thanks! Great to be a member of the Liberty Club (Sons of Liberty? No, I daren’t!). Try to keep busy while you wait for the CLN. It really helps.

20. @Sily Wabbit, yes sort of. The very first forum I joined (and still belong to) was the TitanQuest.net one. I was enoying the game, but struggling to get a grip on how to build a good character so googled and ended up there. I wanted a username to reflect the game which is set in Greece, Egypt, China and Hades’ Underworld. I remembered Medea from the film “Jason and the Argonauts” and the Fleecestealer was obvious from that. I’ve stuck with it ever since for all the other forums I’ve joined up to. I’m still playing the game, having learned a lot from the forum members and now enjoy passing my knowledge on to others who come seeking answers.

21. Big thumbs up to the consulate in Halifax! My appointment was in January and my CLN arrived today, less than a month and a half later. I’m amazed and grateful for the quick turnaround.

    My advice is to carefully review the security measures in place before going in, because the restrictions are even tighter than at the airport. For example, no electronics, no food, no lip balm, etc. Basically all I took was a small purse, my wallet, my keys, my supporting documentation in a clear plastic envelope and a Canada Post Xpresspost envelope.

    There were only four other people at the consulate the morning my appointment, one of whom there for the same reason as me. I erred on the side of caution and took in more documentation than requested, packing along every official piece of paper I’d ever received in my life, my Commemoration of Canadian Citizenship document as well as my Certificate of Canadian Citizenship card — and that turned out to be a smart move. For example, I would’ve thought that a Canadian passport would be enough evidence of citizenship, but they also wanted to see my Commemoration of Canadian Citizenship document.

    The Consul was friendly and professional as he reviewed my papers, asked me sign DS-4080 and DS-4081, and had me swear the oath. He told me to expect the CLN within three months, and to contact the consulate if I hadn’t received it by May.

    All told, I was there for about two hours.

22. I don’t know how I could forget — many thanks to fellow Brockers for all the support and information! Hearing about other people’s appointments made the experience much less daunting.

    (The process of requesting a Loss of Nationality appointment has changed in Canada, since I booked mine so I didn’t bother talking about that. I will say this, though: When you are offered an appointment, don’t hesitate to let them know if you’re available to come in on short notice if there’s a cancellation. You might get lucky and get in much earlier that way.)

23. “I renounced 9 October 2015 in Amsterdam.”

    CLN received today, 10 March 2016 – five months almost to the day. Expected it to be written on vellum, in blood, but no, it’s just the world’s most expensive photocopy.

24. @iota

    So happy to hear your CLN has arrived! Yes, that nondescript piece of paper doesn’t begin reflect how much it cost in terms of stress, money and effort.

    I am scanning it, as well as 4080 and 4081, before carefully filing them all away for safekeeping. To err on the side of caution, I’m also hanging to the old passport they returned since it has a dated renunciation stamp.

25. Thanks Westcoaster!

    Interesting about the renunciation stamp in your passport.. Mine doesn’t have that. It was expired – maybe that’s why they didn’t stamp it.

    Now if only the IRS would send me a Certificate of Uncovered Expatriation and Loss of Tax-Citizenship… 🙂