Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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Oh KCam – if I could figure out how to re-wire him, even if just for this purpose, I would be all over that! LOL 😉
IB There seems to be a compulsion to DO SOMETHING- ANYTHING. Why is this?
Nate could leave well enough alone.
As far as inheritance is concerned, it is not a problem. US estates are taxed, if at all , in the hands of the estate not the heirs. Once that is satisfied, the balance can be left to anyone no matter where or what nationality.
BC Doc requested relinquishment. She was turned down. She resolved to have nothing further to do with them.
I guess for me it’s just the idea that at any time our world could be rocked by Nate not attending to this… the IRS pulling him out of the woodwork. I get super spooked by trying to cross the border thinking that somehow they will be able to cross-reference something or other and detain him or arrest him for not filing or whatever else. It’s a boogeyman that I’m just trying to deal.
Surely I’m not being unreasonable and I’m not the only one that’s been through this 🙂
IB I’m sympathetic believe me. My wife and I didn’t sleep for well for months trying to decide whether or not to enter OVDI.
You are not being unreasonable and you are not the only one. Just ask Mona Lisa. She hasn’t stopped worrying a year after renouncing. All I’m suggesting is that you consider all the options. The more you learn the less you will be afraid. Good luck.
@ Isabelle,
When did he take the government employment? He’s fairly young, so it struck me that his relinquishing act might have occurred since the current tax law has been in effect. Was it before 2004? If more recently, a relinquishment would have the same tax implications as a renunciation for IRS purposes.
If pre-2004, that’s good news. There’s links to several threads and articles at this link.
Read These if Relinquishing Act Performed Prior to June 4, 2004
No, you’re not being unreasonable at all – this is incredibly stressful and outrageous and really quite bizarre to have to deal with. I echo Portland, “… consider all the options. The more you lean the less you will be afraid.” And good luck from me too.
@Isabelle Brock
If you want a suggestion on how to word the intent part of the relinquishment based on government employment, get your husband to ask himself this:
At the time you started the government job, was it your intention to be a US citizen?
From what you’ve said about him considering himself fully Canadian, it sounds to me that his intention was not to be a US citizen. Looking at it that way may help him word things. “At the time I started my job, it was not my intention to be a US citizen.”
As for it being an issue trying to relinquish, I think it’s just the interview at the consulate that has been a problem for some. If the documentation was there, I don’t know of anyone yet who was denied a relinquishment (once it was sent to Washington) based on government employment as long as there were no “American” acts done after the employment started. Does anyone know of a case?
It’s a bit of stepping into the dark for most of us going to relinquish as opposed to renouncing. We’re not sure of our particular situation because everyone’s seems to be different in some way.
Unfortunately no. He worked for the City in 2013 and started teaching in 2014.
THAT BEING SAID, I just remembered that he did work for a tourism commission which, by its own logo says “An agency of the Government of Ontario since 1885”
That one might go back all the way to 2004, but I can’t remember what came first, Niagara Parks or the camp in New Hampshire.
Kathy wote:
I don’t know of any either.
There’s been about 8 or 9 people who reported to Brock about relinquishing under s. 4 (government employment). About 5 of them received negative recommendations from the consulate (a contested application). All of them received relinquishment-based CLNs. None of these persons had acted as a US citizen after the date of their relinquishing act.
However, several people reported being denied relinquishment-based CLNs due passport use/renewal/application after the date of the relinquishing act. (These all happened to be applications under s. (1) (naturalisation); a much more commonly used sub-section, so most of our relinquishment reports are s. (1)s.)
Regarding government employment (actually any relinquishing act),
Always remember that intent is crucial and that your intent must exist at the time you perform the relinquishing act. You might be asked did you know you could lose your citizenship by doing that? How did you know? You might not be asked, but people have been asked, so be prepared.
One problem – a serious one – with government employment relinquishments is consular employees being unfamiliar with s. (4) and/or having an attitude problem. But in every case reported to Brock where the person who relinquished under s. (4) stood their ground and told the consul to forward their file to DC, despite the consul’s negative recommendation, the person prevailed and got their correctly-dated CLN.
Regarding contested CLN applications,
DC seems to know the law (unlike some consulates), and if it’s a matter of fact/law (like is government employment a relinquishing act), they seem pretty dispassionate – if it cuts in your favour, it cuts in your favour.
But if it’s an interpretative matter (like why did a person use a passport if they believed they were not a US citizen?), it seems that generally tends to go against the person (though not always).
Yes, as pacifica777 said, if no “American” things were done after the relinquishing act, then Nate should have no problem. Yes, he would likely be asked in the interview about knowledge of loss and intent. The old “well isn’t just that like other things like being in the armed forces?” and “I never intended to be a US citizen” worked for me. Again, it’s just the interview. A well written letter with all your other documentation is what Washington will look at. The people making the decision aren’t the ones doing the interview.
That being said, if his employment started after 2004, then other than saving on the renunciation fee, relinquishing won’t make any difference in all the other things that will have to be done on the tax side.
@ Kathy,
I’d just like to clarify that I didn’t specifically say that Nate should have no problem. I wouldn’t want to be that specific about a particular case and don’t know all the details of the case; but rather, from what I have read about Nate and based on the government-employment-based-relinquishment cases I’m aware of, it sounds quite positive if his contemporaneous intent is made clear and no US-citizen-type actions were done after the relinquishing act.
I’m really glad you’re in this conversation. I think your insights and tips are great, coming from your first-hand experience in dealing with the system to obtain your govt-employment-based CLN (and being a ground-breaker re the municipal level as well).
Even if we could save the $2500 relinquishing fee I would go for it.
Nate’s first job with Niagara Parks was in May 2004.
@ Isabelle Brock
If that was his first government job at Niagara Parks and it was AFTER the one in New Hampshire, the first thing he’ll need to do is get a letter of employment. Others have had difficulty getting letters from past employers. If he can get one, then he can work from that as a starting point for what he needs going forward.
Isabelle, I’ve done the dual citizen from birth and government employment based relinquishment and received my CLN in Dec 2014. If you would like to communicate directly, I’ll ask the moderator to forward my email address to you.
@ pacifica777
Always glad to give back. I was given so much help and support here it’s nice to add what I can to the conversation. And make donations.
No, it’s not a slam dunk – it never is!! So many small things can mess up or change the direction of decisions. But I agree, it does sound quite positive for Nate.
Moderator: If Isabelle Brock would like to communicate directly with me, please forward my email address to her.
Thanks, Kathy!
I forwarded your address to Isabelle.
Hi – I have looked everywhere and cannot find the phone/email contact info for the Calgary Consulate. I remember reading somewhere before you have to email them for a renunciation appt. There is no option for this kind of appt in their online appt scheduling. Can anybody help? Thanks
@Phoenix22 Here it is! They wouldn’t want to make it too easy for you 🙂
Calgary-ACS@state.gov
You are right, just email them saying you want to make an appointment to renounce (or relinquish, whatever the case may be). They will send you the forms you have to fill out and once you email them back, they give you an appointment.
Good luck!
Great! Thanks so much readytogo I appreciate it.
Also – had to laugh at your post about your appt there – I too ran into that same Calgary firm and was offered the very good price of around 8000-12000$ to do my renouncement. Then 10000$ or more for my 5 years of back taxes. They have their spiel down pat – also warned me about the DS4079 and traps. I am going it alone as I cannot imagine what they can do that is worth 12000$. I have another firm now to do my back taxes for less. Calgarians and Albertan’s be warned they are fasting talking and slick!
@Phoenix22 You can do it! On the subject of taxes, I was given a rough estimate of $45,000 to do my taxes because my husband and I invested in Canadian mutual funds and TFSA (he is not a US citizen)! We do not have a complicated portfolio… it is, in my opinion, highway robbery. I did not hire them…
I just wanted to say I have been lurking on this website since June 2014 when I had my first OMG moment. This website & all the information it provided has saved me thousands of $$$$$ and provided me with so much information that I was able to get out of US taint with very little pain & agony. This would not have been achievable without all of you! From the bottom of my Canadian heart I thank you! I’m not sure how to provide my consulate report but would be more than willing to do so if someone wants to walk me through it.
IamCanadian,
It is comments like yours that prove what a valuable resource is this Isaac Brock Society site — so thanks for letting everyone know just as you did! You can provide a report of your US expatriation experience in another comment right here and Pacifica will then enter your words into the Consulate Report Directory, (which can be read, as you probably have, in a link in the text of the post where you just commented).
Sincere congratulations in your successful expatriation that cost you little in pain and agony as well as $$$$$. Bravo and thanks!
@ Iam Canadian,
Congratulations of your expatriation! I’m glad that things went well and also that our online community was helpful in that.
You can post your report as a comment on this thread (or you can email it to pacifica at issacbrocksociety dot ca). Just feel free to write whatever you wish, as short or as long as you’d like, and I’ll put it into the next edition of the Consulate Report Directory. Thanks for sharing!
I am Canadian– A donation to ADCS would be much appreciated by all who have worked so hard and contributed so much.
@ Calgary411 & Pacifica777 thank you, I will work on my report & post it up here within a few days (I want to be detailed because I know all the details others posted helped me tremendously with my process).
@ Duke of Devon
I have sent cash donations in anonymously and will continue to do so. Although I have escaped I know many more are trapped with no way out but our government being challenged & losing. Go Joe!!!!!
IamCanadian Thank you.
CLN for renunciation received in 2 months – Vancouver consulate
@Iamfree, congratulations on the receipt of your CLN! Wow! Really quick turnaround there.