Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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@ Duke,
Re:
I just created a PDF of consulate reports from people who relinquished by government employment. Prior to this, they were listed as links on the “Relinquishment of US Citizenship by Persons Born Dual or Who Naturalised in a Foreign Country as a Minor.”
Your comment gave me the idea it would be good to have these in one convenient place. Thanks!
They (and future reports) will continue to be in the Consulate Report Directory as well and the PDF link has been added to the above-mentioned post.
@George
I’m a systems analyst, so it’s very clear that I’m not at a policy making level even in municipal government.
The reason that I provided a letter from our City Clerk was that we had no confirmation of a relinquishment at the municipal level of government. I just wanted to be sure that municipalities would be considered a “political subdivision” of a foreign government.
For those of you who don’t know, a City Clerk is one of the big positions at a municipality. Actually, my daughter’s ex-boyfriend, who works for another city, helped in coming up with some of the main points that were used in this document. He’s a politics nerd.
I can provide a copy of the document if it would be helpful to anybody, but some of the language is specific to the City of Kitchener only.
I know that there are others here who are in the process of basing a relinquishment on municipal government employment, so I can imagine that it’s good news to them that mine was accepted. I’m still at the City, so getting a record of employment was no issue for me as it is for some.
I have a question regarding form DS 4079, concerning question number 16.
Does Question number 16 relate to my renouncing at the US embassy during the appointment that has yet to take place?
Thanks!
@Marge, no it doesn’t. Remember that form DS-4079 is really meant for people who are trying to prove they haven’t lost their citizenship. So your answer to that would be “no” because you haven’t done it yet.
I finally have my Canadian passport and called the consulate in Fukuoka (Japan) to set up my first appointment. I have to renounce since I am recognized as having been Canadian from birth, even though I didn’t know it until recently.
I was told “We will try to convince you not to renounce and you need to be able to convince us with a good reason!”
I was surprised at their candor and wondered if anyone else had experienced this kind of attitude on the part of the Consulate staff?
Earlier I had planned on “in order to simplify my life in preparation for retiring in Canada and Malaysia, since I never intend to even enter the States again.”
Any advice?
That’s BULL! You don’t need to convince them of ANYTHING to renounce, it is your RIGHT! Reason NOT required. I supplied no reason in Canada at the Toronto consulate, and was not asked.
@New-Canadian-in-Japan, I second The Mom’s advice. You DO NOT have to give any reason for renouncing, it’s your right under US law and if they don’t like it, tough. They shouldn’t ask for one because they have no right to. If they do ask, tell them you have no need to provide a reason for your action. You are simply exercising your right under US law to renounce.
All a renuncation requires is that you:
Formally renounce US citizenship before a US diplomatic or consular officer outside the US;
http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article3.htm
I also gave no reason when I renounced here in Switzerland and was not asked by any embassy staff for a reason because they don’t need one.
They are probably confusing renouncing with relinquishment when in fact they are two different things.
I’m missing something here, and would need enlightenment.
1/ person born in other country, never claimed US passport: not a US person, because us passport is not automatic (I had to fill in lots of paperwork to get it for my daughter — 10 years ago — quite stupid in retrospect)
2/ person born in other country, has US passport.
IMHO: person 1: stay under the radar, can never be found, can travel with their passport (non us, their only one). Should ignore the whole thing.
person 2: could stay under radar, never detected ???
When I renounced I was asked why can`t I just have 2 passports?
Was that a trick question? I just answered that I don`t need 2 passports.
@New-Canadian-in-Japan
Surprised that Fukuoka gave you such a hard line. You probably just got a really low-level staffer who knows absolutely nothing about the renunciation process; I don’t imagine there have been too many renunciations (or relinquishments either) in Fukuoka. I would just go ahead with the appointment and almost certainly any staff actually authorized to handle a renunciation (usually a vice consul) will be better informed. It is even possible that there is no resident staff at the Fukuoka Consulate authorized to do it. I know there is no one at the Nagoya Consulate; a vice consul from Osaka goes there once a week to handle anything important. While I know the Fukuoka Consulate is a step up from Nagoya in services, it is still labeled “Consulate” and not “Consulate General”.
Alternatively, you could come up to Osaka. They handled my relinquishment appointment very professionally (you can read my post from September 11 in this thread or in the Consulate Report Directory), although 4 months later I’ll still waiting for the CLN that they said would take “about a month or a little longer”. In spite of the disappointing initial contact, I’m sure things will work out for you; a renunciation is really a very simple, albeit expensive, process. In the end, if they incorrectly demand a “reason”, any reason you give them will be sufficient.
Everyone, thanks for the advice!
Tokyo Rose, you are right about it being just a low-level (Japanese) staffer. It seems that there is no one permantly on staff here to handle this until July, but someone is coming down from Tokyo once a month so they are probably more knowledgable.
This Japanese staffer is the same one who told my daughter that it is ok to ignore Japanese law regarding not having dual-nationality as a Japanese.
I’ll report back after my appointment next Thursday!
@New Canadian in Japan, “I have to renounce since I am recognized as having been Canadian from birth, even though I didn’t know it until recently.”
But did you have to apply to be recognized as Canadian BEFORE applying for a passport?
Did you receive something along the lines as a Certificate of Registration?
If you had to register as a first step before applying for a Canadian Passport then you likely qualify for relinquishment and there is a 7 FAM that discusses just that.
But if you applied directly for a passport submitting an assortment of birth and marriage licenses all to the passport agency, then renouncing is it.
George, actually you are right. I had to apply to be recogized, and the only reason I went throught that whole process was with the intention of getting rid of my US citizenship! And eveyone who knows me knew what I was doing and why! I wouldn’t have bothered otherwise!
The only issue is, since I have never lived in Canada, they will probably say that my ties to Canada are limited??
Just got back from my 1st appointment at the Fukuoka Consulate! They were very friendly this time! The Japanese staff gave wondered why I was becoming Canadian instead of Japanese- so I explained that it was because I had received 2 speeding tickets in Japan, which made me unqualified- she was shocked about that Japanese policy! Anyway, the person from Tokyo asked me why, and I returned the question, “And why are you asking?” She backed off and said that she just was interested in knowing that I was doing it voluntarily… She was curious as to why I am becoming Canadian even though I had never lived there, and I can understand her curiosity. I mentioned that I was retiring and moving to Malaysia and FACTCA rules were getting in the way of my long-term visa there. She nodded understandingly. When she mentioned “taxes” I volunteered that “I am still a “US person” if I have US income” so as not to give the impression that that is my reason for renouncing. I had just taken a group of high school students there for a party in August so they found out that they knew me, so a very friendly atmosphere all around. Will go back in a month to finalize things!
@New-Canadian-In-Japan
Are you now going for relinquishment or renunciation? As far as your ties to Canada go, that is irrelevant. All that matters are your ties to the USA. You became Canadian with the intention of relinquishing your US citzenship. Period. All else is none of their business. Also, if I may say so, please be careful about what information you provide them re: taxes and FATCA. Don’t be fooled by a “friendly atmosphere”. Those are US govt. officials you’re dealing with. They have their own agenda and loyalties, which are most likely at odds with your own interests. A US consulate is not the place for friendly chit-chat, IMHO.
@New Canadian, you are clearly a relinquisher and should not be classified as a renouncer!!
Today I relinquished my US citizenship and wanted to share my experience for anybody who might benefit from it:
In months past I went to a seminar held by a big firm in Calgary on renouncing US citizenship. I was appalled that they regularly charge people $8-12K to help them through a process that is their right as US citizens. They warned that DS4079 is filled with “traps” and having a lawyer was a smart thing.
I called up my courage and decided to do it on my own. I sent in my DS4079 with the intention of confirming the relinquishment of my US citizenship based on the fact that I had become a Canadian Citizen in 2008. I wrote an honest and heartfelt statement about how I had never resided in the US beyond going to university there, and how Canada was the first country I felt truly “at home” in. In support of my argument was the fact that once I received Canadian citizenship I never again used my US passport nor asked for anything from the US government.
I had my appointment at the Calgary Consulate today. I have been trying my best to stem the anxiety and fear that this whole issue has caused me and imagined them being polite and helpful. I am VERY happy to report that my appointment was a dream. They never once questioned my relinquishment argument. They were exceedingly polite and affable. I signed my statement and my oath, and off I went. I was not charged, nor was it ever mentioned that I needed to pay. This is huge for us a family, as both of our children will be renouncing later this year.
I am feeling very happy and very relieved. I will, of course, be doing the last five years of taxes. This has also been a great stress as it seems to cost a small fortune (who knew I shouldn’t invest in Canadian Mutual Funds or have a TFSA?!) and it is a bite out of our children’s college fund. However, the EA I am working with is giving me a great deal (compared to others I looked at) and I will report later on how it went, in case anyone else needs a referral in the Calgary area.
Thank you so much to everyone. The Isaac Brock Society has been a beacon in a very confusing and very intimidating situation. I wish everyone the best of luck. It is hard to believe something so nefarious could be happening to so many, but this website has informed me and helped me stay sane!
@readytogo
Congratulations! I hope your CLN comes soon.
@readytogo
Well done and thanks for the report! There seems to be no pattern to how long it takes to hear back about the CLN. It could be 6 months to a year or more. My sister and I have been waiting for 10 to 12 months.
Sincere congratulations for getting closer to the end of your US CBT tunnel. So glad that your claim to relinquishment went smoothly in Calgary and that your daughters will be able to do the same. Thanks for reporting here to lend your experience to the next persons. Pass the word. Hope you will consider helping with the Canadian challenge at http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/. Best to you, ready to go!
Readytogo you said ‘ I will, of course, be doing 5 years of taxes’. Why ‘of course’?
KCam. Are you still there? A V.P. at RBC Wealth Management confirmed for me that he was not required to report registered accounts.
Actually I think all of their senior advisors are called V.P. in order to give them a little extra cachet. He checked with the FATCA gurus at head office first.
@Congrats readytogo. Good feeling isn’t it. Hope it all goes just as smoothly for your daughters.
Duke of Devon,
RBC direct investing may be different? They are insistent. I am preparing a letter to request this information in writing. Will keep you posted.
Thank you all for your congratulations 🙂
@Duke of Devon I say, “of course” because, frankly, I do not want to be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life. My income and our savings/investments come from my husband’s (non US) hard work and as he nears retirement age, it seems foolish to jeopardize it. We run a joint household which is reflected in our joint financial life. I want a clean break. I know that many will not file as a matter of principle (and I respect that), but I am not willing to go through the anxiety. It is as simple as this: I do not trust the US Government to do the right thing. I will, however, contribute to educating and informing others about this nefarious situation, and I will definitely support the legal challenge!