Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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@George
Then we should standardize ourselves too and come up with chart or timeline everyone can use that shows when all these changes happened and what these events mean – and send it to every FI’s head office in Canada and in other countries. They need to be educated, en masse.
@George
Thanks for your post.
“If someone applies for a relinquishing CLN and are rejected in writing, they have been adjudicated and have no choice but for a current dated renounce.”
Your last sentence pretty much sums up my current situation. If I go for the interview and am rejected, which apart from their goodwill (a face they haven’t shown me yet), will undoubtably be the case, It will only serve to provide them with evidence that I do, in fact, consider myself to be an American, which is not the case. If I were to get a current date renounce, it would be tantamount to an admission that I have been an American for the past twenty years. Which would put me in a belly up, beg for mercy position with the IRS.
I had considered getting a letter of support from my local member (who happens to be the deputy PM) but if that should fail I’d be much worse off than when I started. I believe that if they gave me a fair go there would be no problem. But I also believe that in the current environment I am highly unlikely to get a fair go.
They seem quite focused on robbing me. I choose not to help them.
I accidentally removed myself from follow-up comments on this thread so will get back on. I never mentioned in my post about my relinquishment appt at Calgary that I emailed 1 week after for confirmation that my application was forwarded to “State”. The staffer told me it take 3 weeks for them to process it and then it is sent; then taking 5 months at the state department. I emailed again at 3 1/2 weeks and was told it was sent and the date. She also said because I was concerned they would expedite things. I’m not sure what that means but it doesn’t sound fair, however I would encourage everyone to document when your info is forwarded etc. It probably doesn’t make any difference but at least they know you’re keeping track.
I was reading about Obama’s speech tonight on quasi- amnesty for some undocumented residents in the US and wondered “where’s our amnesty?”
There are people clamoring to stay in the US. People who live there, have built lives and pay taxes (they do – the IRS has documented that some SSN’s have multiple people attached to them and most of “illegals”) but the US clings to us and rejects those who want to be Americans.
Irony.
I agree with @Bubblebustin (I believe it was you) who suggested that we need a PDF or post with all the pertinent US law on relinquish and by year as to what is legally required of them. All a list of the relevant IGA info that some banks are ignorantly or willfully ignoring (and isn’t this info that the ADCS needs to bolster it’s case b/c clearly the IGA is not protecting us from discrimination as the govt claims it should).
ProudAussie, you are in a pickle for sure. Doesn’t look as though you have any option but the course you’re taking and hoping that legal action in other places begins to score hits on FACTA so there is precedent for others to pursue legal actions.
@all, always get things in writing. Deal with the bank manager and come armed with the relevant law – US and IGA.
@ YogaGirl
You’re right, that’s basically my position. I have nothing to do but sit on my hands for now, and prepare for the legal action that I’ll have to initiate when they get around to coming after me. Even if I spend all my money on lawyers, and lose, they’ll still walk away empty handed. Scorched earth is all they’ll get. These may seem bold words, but I’m getting pretty darned angry about this, and my determination grows daily.
@ProudAussie. If my relinquishment is rejected I think I’m with you.
I am a first-time poster here, but have been quietly lurking while waiting for my “Proof of Citizenship” to arrive, which now is on it’s way!
I’ll keep you posted about my experiences as I go through the renunciation process in Fukuoka, Japan. Many people at the US Consulate here already know me, so should be interesting to see how they handle the process!
I was thrilled to find this site both for the information contained, and also due to the fact that I am a descendent of the Brock family through my mother. What many may not know, is that the Brocks were originally in Boston (from early 1700’s) and moved north during the revolutionary period, so how appropriate that now there is this Brock site dedicated to help others get out of the US!
@ New-Canadian-in-Japan
Welcome! We are delighted to have a Brock family descendent onboard and we’ll be looking to forward to hearing about your consulate experience. Good luck! Descendents on my father’s side moved north too with a wave of other United Empire Loyalists.
Are you certain you have to renounce rather than relinquish?
Thanks for the welcome, EmBee! Maybe our ancestors went North together!
In looking at the relinquishing form, I think I have a better chance at just renouncing- I didn’t have to say an oath and other things… it might be easier if I were becoming Japanese, my home of 30+ years, but I have 2 speeding tickets here so that is not a possibility!?
Just happy to get out!
Bubblebustin, I think your suggestion of assembling a “self-certification” package is a really good one. But rather than preparing it for the FIs, I am thinking that we here at Brock would probably be a better target market. There are lots of us who will likely be needing one sooner or later. The timeline aspect is important, as is the precise documentation of DOS and IRS guidelines. I downloaded the Dutch document noted by George(?), and it is a good start but I think it needs to be fleshed out with really precise FAM guidelines that people on this site can customize to fit their particular circumstance and take to their FI and make their case. Could we think about creating such a file? Is there someone out there who has a good grasp of how relinquishing acts have functioned through time? There are lots of us who have no intention of complying with IRS edicts as well as many who have been denied a CLN, despite a “preponderance of evidence” to the contrary. Some sort of consistency in our self-certification would be helpful not only to us Brockers, but, oddly enough, probably to the FIs as well.
WhatAmI –
Many Brockers said Canada would NEVER agree to FATCA. Many Brockers said FIs would NEVER ask your birthplace. Many Brockers quote the IGA and insist what a FI can or cannot do. All of this advice has proved to be wrong.
Yup. Many. But not all …
@usxcanada, “Many Brockers quote the IGA and insist what a FI can or cannot do. All of this advice has proved to be wrong.”
And now its time to go to Court, first stop in Canada, next stop in the USA and thereafter slowly in many other countries and the EU.
A FI can only do what is lawful and then only lawful until determined by a Court to be unlawful!
And some FIs speaking only from a EU perspective ARE following the law!!
In the Netheralnds there is a standard format and instruction manual for use by all FIs in the country. The manual actually lists 8 US Code with all the ways to shed US Citizenship!! I know former Americans who became Dutch and have given their FIs the dutch certificate of citizenship and they were sorted.
In my neck of the woods, I have given a FI a reasonable explanation with certificates of citizenship and the records were promptly updated.
There are many FIs in the EU who are NOT asking place of birth post July, they are only asking Are you a US Citizen?
So guess what for decades there have been boatloads of FIs who have screwed up and have paid billions in compensation because they broke the law or ripped off or lied to customers and that is a fact Jack. The litany of ultra vires FIs range from rip off PPI protection on loan to exchange rate rigging. They got taken to Court and buddy, they lost.
I have personally sat in front of a bank manager to open an account and told the person the place of birth question was discriminatory, I asked if they wanted to know if I was Catholic, I asked if they wanted to know if I slept with men/women/animals. I told the person they were going to get sued someday for asking questions like that, quoting a High Street Bank that was sued and guess what I was suddenly told that question was not mandatory and the account would be opened based on my self certification that I am NOT a USC, which I am not and then I gave them my drivers license.
@USXCanada, “Many Brockers said FIs would NEVER ask your birthplace.”
What does CRA say? “A financial institution complying with the agreement will not be required to ask its account holders about their place of birth.”
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/ndvdls-eng.html
Guess what, thats why some FIs are not asking place of birth, they are concerned about lawsuits.
Lawsuits are coming on the place of birth question as people decide they are not going to take this anymore when they do not even have damn USC.
New-Canadian-in-Japan,
Thanks for that gem. The best to you for your renunciation in Fukuoka, Japan!
@ New-Canadian-in-Japan
Obviously a senior moment for me last night. I meant to say: Ancestors on my father’s side moved north too with a wave of other United Empire Loyalists.
If I’m muddled again I apologize. You are a US citizen who has just become a Canadian citizen while living in Japan and about to rid yourself of your US connection. Is that right? Is it difficult to get Canadian citizenship while living outside the country? My husband’s Canadian citizenship application had questions about his residency in Canada.
EmBee, in answer to your questions, yes, I am a US citizen who has just become a Canadian citizen while living in Japan and about to rid myself of US.
I was able to get the Canadian citizenship due to my parents being Canadian. The funny thing is, of all of my parent’s 6 children, only I am now able to become Canadian without the residency requirement because I am the only one who had not previously given up Canadian citizenship, because they didn’t get around to registering me in Canada when I was young! I didn’t like that growing up but am so happy that it worked out this way now!!
@ New-Canadian-in-Japan
Ah so … now I understand. Best of luck to you. 🙂
I have been remiss in posting my Consulate Report for my renunciation with the US Embassy in Abu Dhabi, UAE, completed in February 2012. I have now done so and the report is posted to the link at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Consulate-Report-Directory-2014.12g.pdf
In case anyone is shopping for a place to renounce, consider visiting the UAE. If you are prepared with all the forms filled out, plus notify the consular staff that you are sure of the action and its consequences and want to complete it quickly, you might be able to have it done in the UAE in just a few days while visiting. Note: US citizens are granted a 30-day visitor visa on arrival (no application or fee involved). The main embassy is in Abu Dhabi, and there is a consulate in Dubai. Both cities are modern with plenty of western name brand hotels, restaurants and shopping. There are direct flights from most major cities within 8,000 miles.
The CLN was approved in about six weeks, delayed slightly because the consular clerk used an outdated form for the oath part, and it had to be redone. I insisted the new form be back-dated to the original date as this was not my fault, and the staff was successful in having the Dept of State do that.
All in all, a pretty smooth process, and done in three days. Oh, and to the question of “why do you want to do this?” I replied: “because it is my right to do so.” Period. No further discussion or questions.
I just wanted to let you all know I had my app in May 28/14, in Calgary, they were requesting to deny my request to get a back dated relinquishment. I had them send my request to Washington anyway. I also sent to Washington a letter outlining their laws and why I should not be denied. I would like to report I received my backdated certificate of loss back dated to my government job today Dec 11/14. Not when I turned 21, which is fine 2001 is fine.
Thank you all so much for this website and your information. I am so excited to no longer have to think about the US in any other way than a stop over at the airport on my way to somewhere else.
@ Canadiangirl403 Wow. Congratulations, it’s so nice hearing about people who are successful. As I remember, they weren’t very nice to you at the Consulate. Your waiting time wasn’t too bad either. You must feel a great weight has lifted off your shoulders. Make of copy of that CLN for travel and put the original in a safe place. Maybe a few others that are waiting should be hearing soon as well.
@ Canadiangirl403,
Congratulations!
I’ve forgotten, what was your government job?
Moderator, I think Canadiangirl403 may have a double post with and unintended name attached
Canadiangirl403 Could you clarify a bit? Were you born with dual citizenship? When exactly was your CLN dated to? What was your job? This might be helpful to others e.g. Steve who just posted on the relinquishment thread. Congrats and thanks
@Canadagirl.403
Great news about your backdated CLN. Thanks for letting us know.
@Canadiangirl403, that’s great news! That’s the second report of CLN’s being received this week. Congrats.