Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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Thanks. I have my ups and downs. I keep trying to remind myself that so many others are in much worse situations then me and then I go and get so angry and discouraged again and away I go.
@ WhatAmI,
Yes, I wasn’t disagreeing with you. I was focusing on if the consul based the neg rec on a non-existent criteria, because it seems if you stand your ground and it’s on a point of law, DC knows the law (unlike some consulates) and seems to take what the person has written in their statement and 4079 quite seriously. I don’t know, of course, what’s in that negative recommendation, but if it’s based on that, I’m hopeful. I suspect, IMO, that DC is more likely to give the consul’s opinion more weight when it’s a subjective issue, though.
I haven’t heard of any successful relinquishment claims based on relinquishing as a minor either. Really haven’t heard much at all, but from the little I have heard, it does sound pretty problematic.
Just a correction here. I have been looking back at the Relinquishment and Renunciation Data section and realize that all the information about s.350 of INA 1952.IS located there. In my early days, I guess it was just all so overwhelming and I didn’t find it.
It sure sounds like the consular officer was uninformed when referring to a 4th criteria, but I count a total of 5, although they’re not clearly enumerated.
1. Dual nationality
2. Voluntarily claims benefits of the foreign state nationality
3. Continuous residence in the foreign state for 3 years after having attained 22 years of age
4. Did not take an oath of allegiance to the United States prior to the 3 year period
5. Residence in the foreign state was not for a reason specified in section…
The only criterion which is not completely objective and easily provable is in regards to the benefits of the foreign nationality, but it is pretty hard to say that someone does not receive such benefits, both tangible and intangible.
I would bet dollars to donuts that the lawyers in DC will have no problem understanding this, even though it was too complicated for the consular officer. But since it is definitely going to require a legal opinion, I would not be surprised if it takes quite a while to get approved. They’ll likely be hesitant to rubber-stamp it.
Thanks. I’m hoping.
Just the pleasure of knowing that you’re a Canadian rather than an American would seem to me to be a tremendous intangible benefit.
@WhatAmI, ” none of them can fathom that any USC would want to give it up.”
Anyone giving up USC is clearly not of sound mind. Ergo, because you must be of sound mind and understanding to give up citizenship, you can not give it up because to give it up means you must be crazy making you ineligible to give it up.
@Cheryl, ditto what TokypRose wrote…..they will be hard pressed to deny it. I am amzed they fight so hard to keep people in.
@George
Lol! And because life can’t be better elsewhere, there must be something devilish that motivates people who aren’t crazy to renounce – like greed. So up the price on those greedy bastards!
@George,
Yes, Catch-22 indeed!
@TokyoRose
For me that was definitely true even way back then.
U.S. Embassy Ottawa ✔ @usembassyottawa
Follow
Due to shooting at Parliament Hill in #Ottawa earlier, we are currently on lockdown. We will update once further information is available.
3:46 PM – 22 Oct 2014
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p519/ch04.html#en_US_2013_publink1000222368
Former U.S. citizen. You are considered to have relinquished your U.S. citizenship on the earliest of the following dates.
The date you renounced U.S. citizenship before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States (provided that the voluntary renouncement was later confirmed by the issuance of a certificate of loss of nationality).
The date you furnished to the State Department a signed statement of voluntary relinquishment of U.S. nationality confirming the performance of an expatriating act (provided that the voluntary relinquishment was later confirmed by the issuance of a certificate of loss of nationality).
The date the State Department issued a certificate of loss of nationality.
The date that a U.S. court canceled your certificate of naturalization.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-parliament-hill-shooting-live-updates-1.2808737
@ Cheryl
And that is proof that you “Voluntarily claimed benefits of the foreign state nationality”. Just try to relax and be patient. The way they have been handling cases from Canada these days, it would be surprising if you hear back in less than a year.
Are there any young adults who have renounced? What was your experience like? My young adult child is in the process of renouncing.My young adult child is a US citizen by birth (lived in the US only a few months, how I wish I could go back in time and tell my younger self to get back up to Canada to give birth!) and Canadian at birth through me. Both parents not US citizens. So I’m told they must renounce. Form is confusing! Any help would be appreciated.
@Canadianeh! Welcome and yes, unless your child has served in either the Canadian military or worked for the Canadian government where they have had to make an oath of alligence to Canada then renouncing is the only way.
Form 4079 is very confusing for renunciates because basically it’s irrelevant to the actual act of renouncing. The form is really aimed at people relinquishing because the questions help determine whether someone really intended to relinquish their citizenship hence all the questions about voting, tax, etc. Why the embassies/consulates still use it for renuncations I can’t understand. When you renounce you are making a conscious decision to give up your citizenship and you are stating so before the consul at the embassy/consulate. It is your right to do so and even if you answered yes to all the questions on the form it would mean squat as far as renouncing goes. What you did yesterday, months ago, years ago, has no meaning. It is what your decision is on the day you go to the embassy/consulate that counts. So fill in the form with personal details as requested and I expect the answer will be no to all the other questions. You don’t have to elaborate, just tick the boxes and leave it at that.
Don’t rush it. If you’ve got more than one copy (www.state.gov, search 4079 and then click on one of the PDFs so you can print it off) fill it in in pencil first to make sure you get the answers the way you want them to be before filling out the copy to send back to the embassy/consulate.
@Canadianeh!
A small correction to what @Medea replied: since your “young” adult child has been a dual US-Canadian citizen since birth it is true that the only chance for claiming past relinquishment is military service or government employment (municipal, provincial or federal), but an oath to Canada for employment is NOT required of people who are already Canadian citizens. This is the difference between INA 349 4A and 4B. 4B is for people who do not already have Canadian citizenship in which case an oath is required. Even the consuls were confused about this early on but I think they have learned in the past year or so.
Canadianeh! (S)He should be over 18. It’s actually straightforward. e-mail Calgary, get copies of forms and an appointment. All the forms are available top right on IBS page for you to review under “DEp’t of State forms”
DS4079 is the confusing one The reason being it was originally designed for those wishing to KEEP their US citizenship in spite of an expropriating act. Fill in all questions
e.g. When did you first become aware you might be a US citizen ? Notice how this is worded as if the applicant wanted to acquire or keep US citizenship.
Answer Whatever- age 10,age 16, age 20.
All the latter questions are answered to show that (S)He has no ties to the US.
DS4080 is straightforward. No reason is required. No mention of taxes. If you need to say something say “i left as a baby and feel nothing towards the US.’ or something equally bland. It must be voluntary
That’s it! Bob’s your uncle.
Now the hard bit. Whether or not to file the tax returns; specifically 8854 . This is a whole different discussion
Some will say you must. Others will say don’t bother and every opinion in between. Good luck. Take it a step at a time.
@Canadianeh, assuming he’s 18/19 hopefully he hasn’t been earning much money so would be below the US reporting thresholds for tax. So options would be to either no bother at all, given that he doesn’t have an SSN, or file 8854 with a whole load of zeros plus a note to explain why he doesn’t have an SSN and why no back tax filings (below reporting threshold). To avoid “covered expatriate” status he should file the 8854 form, but that’s something you can think about as you have until June 15th of the year following his renunciation to get any tax filing done. So assuming he doesn’t get an appointment to renounce until say March 2015, he will have until June 15th 2016 to file the 8854 form.
If he’s been earning above the threshold then as Duke of Devon says, that’s a different question. Anyway, I’d concentrate on getting the renunciation forms and an appointment sorted out with the embassy/consulate first and then look at the tax side if he needs to. He doesn’t have to be tax compliant to renounce. Once he has a date for the renunciation he can take it from there.
Canadian eh! If you wish to continue this conversation, please switch to the Relinquishment and Renunciation thread. It’s much easier to follow.
Thank you all for your kind words.
Sorry I’m not very tech proficient. How do I switch to the Relinquishment and Renunciation thread?
Just start posting there instead. Link is to the right of IBS site under “Ask your questions about…”
@ Canadian eh!
Welcome to Brock and you can join another club too with that tech proficiency thing. Lots of us in that one. This is a link to a thread for asking questions about renunciation:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/
Medea Fleecestealer seems to have provided you with good advice but don’t hesitate to ask more questions. The great thing about renouncing young is you don’t have a lot of tax and penalty baggage usually. Sadly there is now a hefty fee for renunciations and long waits for renunciation appointments at some consulates.
Are they charging the $2350 fee for relinquishments based on expatriating acts such as gov’t jobs?
@Kathy:
“Sigh. It worries me the number of people who are going to wake up and find a letter from the IRS in the mail one day.”
Just say no.