John Richardson, who’s been working with and advising CLN applicants for many years, is currently advising Extreme Caution Should Be Exercised In Applying For Non-Renunciation “Relinquishments” Of U.S. Citizenship
He’s noted that, although renunciation-based CLNs continue to usually arrive to Canada in about two months, he’s aware of several CLN applications in Canada based on a prior relinquishing act (not renunciation) having been submitted in the past two years and none of these people have yet received a CLN.
For about a decade, we’d seen relinquishment-based CLNs taking roughly same time to receive as renunciation-based ones, unless there was an issue with it (renunciation-based CLNs generally do not have any issues because a consulate officer literally witnesses the act and has evaluated that they believe the person is acting voluntarily with intention. If not, they would not have allowed the renunciation oath to proceed.).
The DS-4079 (CLN application form) was revised, effective November 2024; and perhaps Dept of State also revised how they evaluate intent in relinquishment-based applications. We’ll be keeping an eye on this and update you as we learn more and, as always, Brock welcomes hearing of your experiences.
*****
John Richardson writes: (reposted with permission):
“Keeping this short, sweet and to the point:
I recommend NOT applying for Certificates Of Loss Of Nationality (“CLNs”) based on a past relinquishing act. Past relinquishing acts include ANY form of relinquishment that is not a present day “renunciation” of U.S. citizenship. (See the appendix to this post.)
If you need help with this problem feel free to reach out to me.
This recommendation is based on experiences in Canada:
– knowing several cases where the Consular appointments documenting the past relinquishing act took place almost two years ago. The individuals have still, despite repeated inquiries, NOT had a response from the State Department! To be clear, two of these were based on naturalizations as Canadian citizens after June 16, 2008 (meaning they were clearly subject to U.S. taxation up to the date of the appointment and were in fact tax compliant!)
– I know people who submitted applications to renounce U.S. citizenship (in Canada) prior to November 1, 2024 (and therefore prior to the beginning of the new DS-4079), who are awaiting appointments to renounce. They have subsequently received messages asking them (in anticipation of their renunciation appointments) to complete the new DS-4079. The message to them also included the statement that:
– the new rules (using a new DS-4079) which took effect on November 1, 2024 make it VERY clear that the State Department is reviewing the evidence of voluntariness and intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. The voluntariness and intent must be proven at the moment of the expatriating act!
The Department of State will only have a legal basis to approve a CLN in your name if the preponderance of evidence shows that you voluntarily performed a potentially expatriating act with the intent to relinquish U.S. nationality.
I see that the level of complexity in relinquishment has multiplied since I went through the process in 2012/13, for a CLN backdated to 1994. It took 18 months to find out if I was successful, but the frustration was all worth it when I did not have to enter into the US tax system at all. And a bonus in those days was that relinquishing did not require payment of a fee.
With the US political situation now, I foresee even more dual citizens looking into giving up their US ties.
With the developing disaster re: Cheeto/Musk it will probably soon be impossible to renounce in any time frame at any price.
To all and sundry, John was hugely helpful to me in getting my CLN. If you want someone to work with you, he’s your guy. Since getting my CLN in 2020 (I believe), I have been out of touch on these issues of course. I am wondering, are there any people out there who have actually paid the enormous penalties demanded by the US?
What about renouncement based CLN applications? Have any been approved since the new administration took over? Anyone know if the office in the state department that approves the CLN applications is still functional?
@ javelin312,
1. I presume yes. We only know about approved CLNs if someone posts on the site about receiving theirs (no such posts in the past month, but that’s not strange at all) or if we read stats (but there’s no stats out for 2025 yet).
2. I haven’t read anything to the contrary. I’ve been keeping an eye out for news on administrative/policy changes re renunciation – and I suspect a lot of us who post here are. So it’s probably good to check this site occasionally, in case there’s a development re renunciation that gets buried under all the other current US govt news in the mainstream media.
Are renouncing and relinquishing the same thing?
@ Shar,
Renunciation is actually a form of relinquishment [s. (5) in the Immigration and Nationality Act excerpt below], but we single out renunciation with its own name for clarity because the circumstances and procedure differ a bit from the other ways of relinquishing.
Renunciation is the only relinquishing act that is witnessed by a Consulate officer, so it’s very straightforward and you do not have to prove that the act occurred. Renunciation is the most common form of relinquishment.
With the other sections of the Act — eg, s. (2) naturalisation in a foreign country with intent to relinquish – you must provide proof you performed the act and you must not have acted as a US citizen since performing the act (ie, didn’t apply for or use a US passport, etc).
With renunciation, you just perform the relinquishing act by taking the oath in the Consulate officer’s presence.
Immigration and Nationality Act, s. 349(a)(1); 8 USC 1481
(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1)
obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(2)
taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(3)
entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or (B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or
(4)
(A)
accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or
(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or
(5)
making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State;
There are also relinquishment acts under ss.(6)and (7), but I didn’t bother to paste them, as they deal with war and treason.
Current bill about eliminating RBT in Ways and Means Committee:
https://lahood.house.gov/2024/12/lahood-introduces-bill-to-modernize-tax-system-for-americans-living-overseas
That one’s been floating around for years going nowhere. I’ve got a better idea:
Somebody needs to mention FATCA to DJT and explain what it is, with particular emphasis on the fact that its one of Obama’s signature “accomplishments”.
Once brought to his attention, chances are good that Trump would immediately wipe out FATCA with an executive order. After all, he is hell-bent on stamping out anything to do with Obama and is most definitely not concerned with tax evasion. For a guy like Trump, getting rid of FATCA would be a no-brainer. Whether or not that would be legal, who knows, but he seems little troubled by such technicalities.
Even though he would be stepping on their turf, nobody in Congress would fight him on this, most Americans have never heard of FATCA, and the few who have heard of it would be glad to see it gone. In other words, there is zero downside.
This would, of course, tie right in with DOGE because Elon could then fire all the IRS employees tasked with implementing FATCA . A win-win and another significant step towards “Making America Great Again”.
Ha! FATCA and NAFTA *are* easily confused…