Thanks to Stephen Kish for posting this on the Media and Blogs thread.
The Toronto Star newspaper has been complaining for many days now that not enough “Americans” in Canada vote in US elections, and is hosting a virtual meeting tonight (Sept 22) trying to influence more of these US Persons to vote.
You can’t attend this virtual event, but you can email your questions.
If you have a point of view on the subject that might differ from that of the panelists (which include a former US ambassador to Canada), why don’t you send a brief email?
“Questions will be addressed during the live event as time permits.”
The link:
A Letter to the Editor from Democrats Abroad in today’s (Sept 27, 2020) Toronto Star — dealing with Canadians voting in US election, Moodys, and renouncing:
“Moodys Tax playing things to their financial gain
I read with some alarm an ad in a recent issue urging U.S. citizens living in Canada to renounce their U.S. citizenship.
Placed by Moodys Tax, the quarter-page ad claimed that with one of the most consequential
elections in U.S. history on Nov. 3, “record numbers are lining up to renounce their U.S. citizenship.”
Not only is this a questionable fact, but it begs the question: Why now?
As the chair of Democrats Abroad’s Taxation Task Force noted this week: “All our data on
voter registration and ballot requests from around the world suggests that voter participation
from abroad will shatter all previous records.”
True, there are tax disadvantages for those of us living abroad — disadvantages Democrats
Abroad and the other organizations representing Americans abroad have been working tirelessly to change, and which Moodys Tax is playing to their financial (and perhaps political)
advantage all over the globe. Moodys makes money from renunciations. If there’s one valuable lesson this crop of Republicans has taught us, it’s to follow the money.
For most Americans living abroad, the idea of renouncing our citizenship is anathema. I
would urge Americans living in Canada to join Democrats Abroad to continue the fight for a
more equitable, residence-based tax system.
And to vote (via votefromabroad.org), because we can’t afford to do anything less.
Steve Nardi, chair of Democrats Abroad Canada, Mississauga”
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/toronto-star/20200927/281981790030740
Yet another article in Toronto Star (September 24, 2020 republished today September 27) on “Canadians are getting out the U.S. vote”.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/09/24/as-the-2020-us-election-looms-more-canadians-are-getting-involved-than-ever-but-should-they.html
A reader comments on the article:
“In one word… No. Do we want Americans involved in our electoral process? I think not! Therefore, why should they tolerate our participation in theirs?”
Hilarious. If there’s one thing I can say with great certainty, it’s this: Alex Marino and Moodys are not motivated by political interests. They are a purely non-partisan money-printing machine. (By his own admission, Biden would be very good for business, probably better than Trump.)
DA are too interested in voting to acknowledge that most US citizens in Canada can and should ignore the IRS completely.
There, slightly snarky e-mail to Steve Nardi at DA is on its way. Doubtless to be ignored.
I rather like this line:
“Renouncing US citizenship isn’t an anathema to Canadian duals – it’s overpriced overkill. “
Casting a vote in a US Presidential election is a deal-breaker for those claiming self-relinquishment. Being forced to get a US passport under duress (coerced by a surly border guard) or filing a US tax return (confused by IRS rules) can be explained away but only people who believe (and prove) they are US citizens would vote in a US election.
” Casting a vote in a US Presidential election is a deal-breaker for those claiming self-relinquishment.”
Wouldn’t accepting a stimulus check do the same?
On the one hand , when you relinquish,you claim to have lost US citzenship due to a prior expatriating act and when you accept a stimulus check you do so as being a US citzen . So when you relinquish with your stimulus check ,you are contradicting yourself, be it self relinquishing or just relinquishing, no?
Sadly the London Embassy did not accept that I’d felt forced into obtaining a US passport due to a very unpleasant episode when trying to enter the US with my UK passport. I’d hoped for a backdated relinquishment.
@RR
Does it matter?
@ R.R.
I thought the stimulus cheques were sent to those who filed 2018 and 2019 tax returns and citizenship wasn’t a consideration. Regardless, my personal claim of self-relinquishment is unblemished; I don’t have US passport, don’t file US returns, haven’t received a cheque, and sure as hell won’t be voting.
@RH
It doesn’t for now and maybe forever,since money is falling like rain and no one is there to monitor it.
Your philosophical view that one hand washes the other, when paying an extortion fee with the extortionist’s money , is understandable and even ‘ethically’ correct.
@ maz57
I think that SS pensioners receiving the ssa-1099 form who have no reason to file also are automatically included in the stimulus. For overseas, the only non US citzens eligible are those have filed jointly with their US spouse. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Also agree with you in another regard, if you look like, act like, even feel like an American ,you are an American. Otherwise ,you are not, even though someone wants to label you as one.
My point was rather, does “self-relinquishment” matter, except insofar as it gives one great personal satisfaction?
The US government has been sending out stimulus cheques to many different species of non-citizens living abroad: Social Security recipients, recent renunciants, temporary foreign workers who filed the wrong flavour of 1040, and presumably also corpses.
My cunning plan to pay the extortionist with the extortionist’s own money does depend on Congress getting its act together. Currently it’s only a 50 percent discount. (Persnickety correction: that’s not quite the meaning of “one hand washes the other” – the US government does not benefit from this transaction.)
@R.H.
“My point was rather, does “self-relinquishment” matter, except insofar as it gives one great personal satisfaction?”
Besides the personal satisfaction, I think it does matter:
1. It fulfills the letter of US law regarding loss of citizenship. (Congress itself is on the record stating that getting a CLN is not necessary for loss of citizenship to have occurred.)
2. It constitutes a “reasonable explanation” for the lack of a CLN should it ever become an issue with a cranky bank.
3. Pick your executor carefully and it eliminates the question of what to do about US estate taxes (totally ignore them).
4. Plus, I once successfully argued (as in I was allowed to enter on my Canadian passport) that I couldn’t get a US passport because I was no longer a US citizen.
The only thing self-relinquishment doesn’t do is officially exit the US tax system but no one gives a hoot about that anyway, especially if you have never been in the US system.
Fair enough, though a border guard or bank employee won’t know one way or the other if a self-relinquisher voted or took money from the Donald. That’s between you and your conscience, I’d say.
Article in Oct 17 CBC news from a Canadian — U.S. “dual” who considers himself Canadian and will not vote in the U.S. election despite much pressure to do so.
He says:
“There’s been a push — no, make that a shove — to recruit Americans living in Canada who are eligible to vote in the Nov. 3 presidential election to become part of the electoral process. Knowing I was born in the U.S., my friends, neighbours and relatives will ask with a semi-desperate twinge in their voices: “Have you registered to vote in the U.S. election?” And when I say I am registered but I do not plan to vote, they get very angry….
They don’t listen when I answer that I am not voting because, after more than 50 years outside the U.S., I don’t feel it is my country anymore. Inside my heart and inside my mind I have become Canadian…”
A comment from a reader:
“…No, his reluctance has to do with the fact that he no longer regards himself as an American. Reading anymore into it, as has been done here, seems to be in service of everyone else’s personal POV of America, and it’s politics. Seems to me the man doesn’t give a rat’s about the country he left – and loves the country he and his children, and grandchildren call home. End of.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-expats-canada-presidential-election-vote-1.5750417
Mr Srauss is quite right in his conclusion to not to vote. Just surprised that it took him fifty years to realize that what he was voting on was not relevant to where he actually lived and to his life as well. Or maybe, he realized that if he would be reaching for the ballot,as an american he has a duty to pay his IRS taxes
The question of allowing /not allowing long term overseas residents the right to vote has nothing to do with democracy but only a ”semblance” of it ,because if a day would ever came to pass where the vote from abroad would determine the outcome of an election , that right would be eliminated or constrainted rather quickly and for the obvious reason.